What Makes a Baptist Church an Independent Baptist Church?

[rlvaughn]

From The Baptist Pillar
What Makes a Baptist Church an Independent Baptist Church?

Some bullet points

• The Pattern of Acts 13
• Christ's Authority Given To The Church
• There Can Be Cooperation Without Compromise
• Independent But Not Isolated
• Only One Scriptural Organization

 

[evangelist6589]

From The Baptist Pillar
What Makes a Baptist Church an Independent Baptist Church?

Some bullet points

• The Pattern of Acts 13
• Christ's Authority Given To The Church
• There Can Be Cooperation Without Compromise
• Independent But Not Isolated
• Only One Scriptural Organization

Are you posting in favor of IFB churches? I do not like these types of Baptist churches. Way too legalistic.

 

[rlvaughn]

I am posting in favor of discussion of the article and topic. Did you read it?

I don't think the author used the initials IFB or the terminology Independent Fundamental Baptist. He is talking about a church remaining independent of or not joining any type of organization -- association, convention or fellowship.

 

[Reynolds]

Are you posting in favor of IFB churches? I do not like these types of Baptist churches. Way too legalistic.

They don't condone drinking Mikes Hard Lemonade?

 

[Salty]

Are you posting in favor of IFB churches? I do not like these types of Baptist churches. Way too legalistic.

1) The OP was not asking if you like it or not - rather - what makes a church independent.
2) All IFB's are NOT legalistic - unless you mean they take a stand against alcoholic, divorce, ect.

 

[Salty]

I am posting in favor of discussion of the article and topic. Did you read it?

I don't think the author used the initials IFB or the terminology Independent Fundamental Baptist. He is talking about a church remaining independent of or not joining any type of organization -- association, convention or fellowship.

A church CAN be in an association, convention or fellowship and still be independent!
A church is independent when no outside group exercise any control over that local church.

From the link - "The definition for the word "independent" is fairly simple: not subordinate or subject to; not dependent upon; not subject to the control or influence of something; not connected or related to another group."

Our church is affilated with the SBC - but we are NOT subordinate, NOT subject to, NOT dependent upon, NOT subject to the control or influence of something.

The last item -says "not connected or related to another group. This would infer that no Independent Baptist church should support any missionary from a mission board - as that would make a church related to another group.

 

[Deacon]

I do not like these types of Baptist churches. Way too legalistic.

First line of the article posted:

There are many today who do not really understand the position and work of Independent Baptists.
Some believe that all Baptist churches are the same and believe and practice the same thing.​

 

[Squire Robertsson]

To me, it's more of a matter of mindset rather than what's in print. In principle, all Baptist churches are independent. Otherwise, the church is just a deep water Presbyterian. As to mindset, the kerfluffle over independence arose in the 50s and continues to today. By the 50s, after losing fight after fight over twenty some odd years, Consevative\Fundamentalists had separated from the Northern Baptist Convention (the GARBC in the 30s). Considering the problems in SBC schools, they looked askance at why churches and men would stay in the SBC.

 

[Revmitchell]

From The Baptist Pillar
What Makes a Baptist Church an Independent Baptist Church?

Some bullet points

• The Pattern of Acts 13
• Christ's Authority Given To The Church
• There Can Be Cooperation Without Compromise
• Independent But Not Isolated
• Only One Scriptural Organization

It is wrong. Being part of a mission board does not make a Baptist church less independent. While the op railed on mission boards there was no evidence biblical or otherwise that showed churches affiliated for missions are any less independent than anyone else.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

A church CAN be in an association, convention or fellowship and still be independent!

Exactly so! The question of whether a church is in an association/fellowship or in a denomination is, how easy is it to leave?
Being in a fellowship means that my church can get legal advice (usually free) and moderation in the event of an internal dispute. However, there is no barrier to our leaving should we ever wish to do so.

 

[JonC]

From The Baptist Pillar
What Makes a Baptist Church an Independent Baptist Church?

Some bullet points

• The Pattern of Acts 13
• Christ's Authority Given To The Church
• There Can Be Cooperation Without Compromise
• Independent But Not Isolated
• Only One Scriptural Organization

Sounds about right to me (insofar as I understand the IFB denomination). The only part that I'd disagree with is :

"If it were scriptural for a church to redelegate the authority to another organization to send out missionaries, then it would be just as scriptural to redelegate that authority to another to baptize, to administer the Lord's supper, to exercise discipline, etc. The Bible does not teach or condone such action. There is no scriptural justification for the formulation of mission boards."

I disagree for a couple of reasons (I am SBC, so this goes without saying). First, when we look in Acts we can see a corporation between churches (I believe in the coming together to determine what doctrine is appropriate for the Gentiles and also with Paul's collection for the poor).I realize that my "evidence" is not above challenge, but this is one reason I believe in churches supporting one another. I also see in the New Testament a type of corporation when it comes to the support of the Apostles, and I believe this extends to evangelism in general. I think, for example (again, this is my opinion and not above challenge), that Paul intended his support for those in the early mission field to extend beyond a single church.

So I strongly disagree that there is no scriptural justification for the formulation of mission boards. Churches should be in corporation with one another (I think this is also very evident in the tone of 2 John....again, not above challenge [I view the "lady" and "sister" to be referring to local churches).

 

[rlvaughn]

A church CAN be in an association, convention or fellowship and still be independent!
A church is independent when no outside group exercise any control over that local church.

Salty, a couple of things related to your comments and the OP. First, I agree with you that a church can be in an association and still be independent in the sense of no outside group exercising control over the local church. The church I grew up in was in a association, and we were independent and autonomous, with no one telling us what to do (and if they tried, they didn't have any luck). On the other hand, as regards terminology associated churches usually identify themselves by their associations (SBC, GARBC, etc.), while we most often use the term "independent" to mean a church not in an association, convention or fellowship. I've seen independent (unaffiliated) churches that I don't think of as very independent -- being ruled and operated by a leader who considers himself the head of the church and whatever he says goes. Yet they are also independent in the sense of not being under the control of an outside group.

I think if we only discuss the terminology, though, we make this only a semantic discussion/debate. On the other hand, the author of the linked post is making a case that a church should not be a member of or affiliated with a body larger than the church.

Jesus Christ left only one organization upon this earth to do the work of the Lord. All other organizations are impostors, usurpers, and false representatives of the Lord. One can search the New Testament from beginning to end and the local church is the only organization found to be authorized to fulfill the Great Commission. No conventions, associations, organized fellowships, mission boards, etc. are to be found.

 

[Bro. James]

Article is on the mark.

External influences can have a profound effect on the sovereignty of a New Testament Church. Internal influences can have an even greater effect. See: baptistcourier.com/2007/06/masons-honorable.

Some of this might qualify as: deeds of the Nicolaitans--Jesus says He hates them. See Rev. 2:6, 13,14.

Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

Bro. James

 

[Salty]

In reality, an association or convention - will only give advice or recommendation - of which we have the choice of do or not doing.
Our DOM has many years experience as a church planter and as a DOM. He has some very good advice. Normally, it would be a good
ideal to follow his advice. (BTW, in addition to being our DOM, he is also the church planter/pastor of a mission church!

 

[Salty]

...I think if we only discuss the terminology, though, we make this only a semantic discussion/debate. On the other hand, the author of the linked post is making a case that a church should not be a member of or affiliated with a body larger than the church.

So would it be wrong for a church to join the local chamber of commerce?

 

[rlvaughn]

So would it be wrong for a church to join the local chamber of commerce?

Not sure I've ever heard that question discussed. Among other things, the Chamber of Commerce is a business advocacy group, which includes government lobbying. So, no, I would not be in favor of it.

 

[Bro. James]

What happens to a church's sovereignty when she becomes an LLC?

Try putting: "Homosexuality is an abomination to God on your sign". You may get charged with a hate crime.

I guess no one wants to consider the effect freemasonry might have on church sovereignty.

Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

Bro. James

 

[Squire Robertsson]

Nothing, as long as it is willing to give it up if the government goes into persecution mode. Until then it protects the assets of the members.

What happens to a church's sovereignty when she becomes an LLC?

 

[Salty]

Nothing, as long as it is willing to give it up if the government goes into persecution mode. Until then it protects the assets of the members.

as well as the church officers