what makes a church/group become a Cult?

[kathleenmariekg]

Was your parent ACTUALLY saved BY JESUS, or "pseudo/quasi saved" by cult doctrine ? ONLY JESUS is the Savior; no one or nothing else can save one from the penalty of his/her sins.

Wow! You didn't read my post. Yes, those hero prodigals of my childhood that prayed into the next morning begging for someone to lead and disciple them were all saved! I am not sure I can say that about all the people we met in some of the mainstream churches though.

 

[AustinC]

Firstly read the account of the Lords Supper in the Gospel of Luke where Jesus gives the bread and the wine to all the Disciples including Judas. And told them that the wine represented His blood shed for the forgiveness of their sons. Then read the comments on this passage in John Gill and Matthew Henry both Reformed theologians who admit that Judas did indeed take part in the Lords Supper. Very clear Bible evidence that Jesus also died for the sins of Judas.

A perfect example of symbolism in communion rather than literal like the Roman Catholic sacraments claim. Are you sure you're not Roman Catholic?

Luke 22:3,7-8,14-22
Then Satan entered into Judas called Iscariot, who was of the number of the twelve.

Then came the day of Unleavened Bread, on which the Passover lamb had to be sacrificed. So Jesus sent Peter and John, saying, “Go and prepare the Passover for us, that we may eat it.”

And when the hour came, he reclined at table, and the apostles with him. And he said to them, “I have earnestly desired to eat this Passover with you before I suffer. For I tell you I will not eat ituntil it is fulfilled in the kingdom of God.” And he took a cup, and when he had given thanks he said, “Take this, and divide it among yourselves. For I tell you that from now on I will not drink of the fruit of the vine until the kingdom of God comes.” And he took bread, and when he had given thanks, he broke it and gave it to them, saying, “This is my body, which is given for you. Do this in remembrance of me.” And likewise the cup after they had eaten, saying, “This cup that is poured out for you is the new covenant in my blood. But behold, the hand of him who betrays me is with me on the table. For the Son of Man goes as it has been determined, but woe to that man by whom he is betrayed!”

Do you see the Sovereign ordination of God in this passage? Not one molecule is a rogue molecule. This remains true in God's ordained choosing of his children.

Why do you fight against the Sovereignty of God?

 

[robycop3]

Wow! You didn't read my post. Yes, those hero prodigals of my childhood that prayed into the next morning begging for someone to lead and disciple them were all saved! I am not sure I can say that about all the people we met in some of the mainstream churches though.

The fact that they isolated themselves insteada living normal lives among other people tells me something was off about them. Nowhere in Scripture does God tell anyone to become a monk or otherwise sequester himself where he can't tell the Gospel to others.

That's why I consider the Amish to be a cult. They live by mostly MAN-MADE rules. Seems as if your former outfit had some as well.

 

[robycop3]

Firstly read the account of the Lords Supper in the Gospel of Luke where Jesus gives the bread and the wine to all the Disciples including Judas. And told them that the wine represented His blood shed for the forgiveness of their sons. Then read the comments on this passage in John Gill and Matthew Henry both Reformed theologians who admit that Judas did indeed take part in the Lords Supper. Very clear Bible evidence that Jesus also died for the sins of Judas.

Jesus gave Judas opportunity to repent. He said that one of His disciples would betray Him, but He didn't say how. he said His betrayer would be the one to whom He gave the choice piece of the passover lamb, & gave it to Judas.He let him know He knew what Judas was planning to do, and told him, "Go & do what you must, quickly." Right then, Judas coulda repentedhe had plenty of opportunity & God woulda used another to betray Jesus to the temple police who didn't know Him by sight. But Judas had sold himself out to Satan too much to change his mind. (It's my understanding Judas was a Zealot, & was bitterly disappointed that Jesus wasn't gonna supernaturally mdeliver the Jews from Roman rule.)

But Satan apparently left him after Jesus was busted, as his eyes were open & he deeply regretted what he'd done. But the priest officials said, "What is that to us?" Satan said the same to himself, of course. Judas' usefulness to him was over.

 

[robycop3]

Another mark of a cult, especially the pseudo/quasi-Christian ones, is WORSHIPPING & LIVING BY MAN-MADE RULES, law aside, of course.

Seems, besides the obvious cults such as the JW, a lotta them are branches of pentecostalism. They have such man-made rules as "no pants on women, no earrings on men", etc. T.D. Jakes grew up in, & started his cult in St. Albans, WV, about 50 miles from my home. While he doesn't say it, he's definitely pentecostal.

Another such gang is "Holiness". Before I was saved, a friend invited me to his church, a Holiness one. Its service started much as many other churches do, but as it went on, the preacher started talking louder & louder til he was screaming incomprehensibly, & the parishioners began waving their arms in the air, soon getting up & writhing like hula dancers, with many laying on the floor cutting dust angels. At that point I left, believing I'd ventured into a funny farm, wondering, HOW CAN THAT BE HONORING GOD ? After I was saved & studied Scripture,I knew Old Testament groups sometimes did that, but not those under the New Covenant. I know church services are supposed to not only edify believers, but to lead the unsaved present to Jesus, & such a shenanigan as I saw that day didn't do either.

 

[Aaron]

Just curious as to what doctrines and teachings held would move a church/group into a Cult status?

I wouldn't automatically equate apostate and heretical sects as cults. To be a cult the sect will promote the authoritarian rule of a someone claiming to be a spiritual leader, prophet or otherwise extraordinarily gifted or insightful. It will tend to isolate itself and its members, and severely chastise dissent, if not imprison and re-educate the dissenters.

 

[AustinC]

Jesus gave Judas opportunity to repent. He said that one of His disciples would betray Him, but He didn't say how. he said His betrayer would be the one to whom He gave the choice piece of the passover lamb, & gave it to Judas.He let him know He knew what Judas was planning to do, and told him, "Go & do what you must, quickly." Right then, Judas coulda repentedhe had plenty of opportunity & God woulda used another to betray Jesus to the temple police who didn't know Him by sight. But Judas had sold himself out to Satan too much to change his mind. (It's my understanding Judas was a Zealot, & was bitterly disappointed that Jesus wasn't gonna supernaturally mdeliver the Jews from Roman rule.)

But Satan apparently left him after Jesus was busted, as his eyes were open & he deeply regretted what he'd done. But the priest officials said, "What is that to us?" Satan said the same to himself, of course. Judas' usefulness to him was over.

I disagree with your claim that Judas had an escape from God's ordained purpose for Judas' existence as a disciple. Judas was created to fulfill the work which God had foretold. What happened is exactly what God ordained.

 

[kathleenmariekg]

The fact that they isolated themselves insteada living normal lives among other people tells me something was off about them. Nowhere in Scripture does God tell anyone to become a monk or otherwise sequester himself where he can't tell the Gospel to others.

That's why I consider the Amish to be a cult. They live by mostly MAN-MADE rules. Seems as if your former outfit had some as well.

You are not reading my post!!! My people did NOT isolate: they stayed behind when the larger group left to isolate, and got on their knees and prayed for guidance about which local mainstream group to join. In every way, they always did the opposite of isolating.

They read their Bibles cover to cover, and were confused by the group that left AND the groups they had available to choose from. They wanted to join; they were willing to submit. They prayed and then did choose a new group to join.

The people that left: yes, I question whether they were/became a cult for that very reason. I question, but am careful not to judge: it is not my place.

But for my childhood heroes that stayed behind: they did NOT isolate and I will defend them against accusations that they were not saved. They were the most saved people I have ever met.

 

[robycop3]

I disagree with your claim that Judas had an escape from God's ordained purpose for Judas' existence as a disciple. Judas was created to fulfill the work which God had foretold. What happened is exactly what God ordained.

God didn't create anyone predestinated for hell with no chance of salvation. Would the perfectly-just God do that?

 

[AustinC]

God didn't create anyone predestinated for hell with no chance of salvation. Would the perfectly-just God do that?

A perfectly just God would cast all humans in hell because all humans are born under the curse of sin as wretched and unholy.
God is perfectly loving if he chooses to never extend mercy or grace. Justice enforced is perfect love.

 

[Yeshua1]

God sometimes leaves people in places longer than we think He should. We are children; He is the Father. We think trapped within the small context of children; He thinks within the context of all his attributes that are uniquely His and that we do not share.

Except the Lord wants us to depart from those spreading the false Gospel and False Jesus!

 

[Yeshua1]

God didn't create anyone predestinated for hell with no chance of salvation. Would the perfectly-just God do that?

Judas freely chose to betray Jesus, did God cause Him to do that?

 

[Yeshua1]

A perfectly just God would cast all humans in hell because all humans are born under the curse of sin as wretched and unholy.
God is perfectly loving if he chooses to never extend mercy or grace. Justice enforced is perfect love.

We really do not know how far from the Holiness of God we are now in our fallen states!

 

[Yeshua1]

Those, like some of the "reformed" teach, that a sinner can be justified before God and become born-again, without the need for them to repent of their sins, and believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, which is the Gospel. This is what Paul calls, "another gospel", which in reality is no "gospel" at all, and therefore produces a false salvation.

How many sins needed to repent of before God can save us then?

 

[Yeshua1]

The fact that they isolated themselves insteada living normal lives among other people tells me something was off about them. Nowhere in Scripture does God tell anyone to become a monk or otherwise sequester himself where he can't tell the Gospel to others.

That's why I consider the Amish to be a cult. They live by mostly MAN-MADE rules. Seems as if your former outfit had some as well.

They hold to a works salvation, being nice and doing good!

 

[robycop3]

Judas freely chose to betray Jesus, did God cause Him to do that?

What he chose first was to sell out to Satan.

 

[SavedByGrace]

How many sins needed to repent of before God can save us then?

Why such a foolish question

 

[robycop3]

They hold to a works salvation, being nice and doing good!

The Amish are among the worst for doing that ! So are sone branches of pentecostals such as the "word/faith", "name it/claim it" and "oneness."

 

[Yeshua1]

I disagree with your claim that Judas had an escape from God's ordained purpose for Judas' existence as a disciple. Judas was created to fulfill the work which God had foretold. What happened is exactly what God ordained.

Judas was willing to do the task assigned him by God, was not forced "against his will"

 

[Yeshua1]

Why such a foolish question

How many?