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What Makes A GOOD N.T. Local Church?
- Thread starter Gregory Perry Sr.
- Start date
Yes you do ....mostly in the Bible Belt (but not exclusively) & there is another name for them--- there called DEAD Churches.
I could not agree more!
I can't help but notice that when asked what makes a legitimate church, most people give a works-based answer which describes all of the good works one must perform to be a "real" church. We ARE the Church. We do not become the church if we perform enough good works.
I can't help but notice that when asked what makes a legitimate church, most people give a works-based answer which describes all of the good works one must perform to be a "real" church. We ARE the Church. We do not become the church if we perform enough good works.
The title of the op is "what makes a good NT churchz'
The title of the op is "what makes a good NT churchz'
Read the next line:
"Or more precisely...what is the CORRECT Biblical MODEL for a local New Testament Church?"
I can't help but notice that when asked what makes a legitimate church, most people give a works-based answer which describes all of the good works one must perform to be a "real" church. We ARE the Church. We do not become the church if we perform enough good works.
We have no right to think we are the church if the works do not follow.
You don't do works to be part of the church but if you are the church YOU DO WORKS that prove it.
We have no right to think we are the church if the works do not follow.
You don't do works to be part of the church but if you are the church YOU DO WORKS that prove it.
Mormons are involved in as many or more good works than baptists & have a greater reputation of being more honest & moral. Do their good works & right living make them a true church? I think not. Our definition of the church must be apart from the good works we do. The Church is what we are, not what we do. We are adopted children of God & members of the Body & Church of Christ based upon the New Covenant relationship with God, not on how good we are.
Mormons are involved in as many or more good works than baptists & have a greater reputation of being more honest & moral. Do their good works & right living make them a true church? I think not.
Who said works MAKE ONE A TRUE church???
Going fast does not make one a race car. But when one claims to be a race car and never goes fast, it has deceived itself.
There is NO SUCH THING as a real church that does not seek to fulfill the Great Commission.
You might as well say water can be water without being wet.
Stick to the OP Michael, which is explicitly speaking of local churches.Mormons are involved in as many or more good works than baptists & have a greater reputation of being more honest & moral. Do their good works & right living make them a true church? I think not. Our definition of the church must be apart from the good works we do. The Church is what we are, not what we do. We are adopted children of God & members of the Body & Church of Christ based upon the New Covenant relationship with God, not on how good we are.
In my view there is no such thing as a "we are the church," or the universal church. The word (church) "ekklesia" means assembly, and it is impossible to have an unassembled assembly. A universal church has no purpose, no place of gathering, no direction, nothing. It is a metaphysical existential oddity that cannot and does not exist. Every time the word "church" is used in the Bible it is used in a "local church" setting.
Now that you have my rant for the day, stick with the OP.
It specifically asks What Makes A GOOD N.T. Local Church?
Gregory Perry Sr.
Active Member
Time to chime in....
I guess since I invented this thread I ought to finally chime in. I just decided to lay back awhile and see how it developed. Interesting...very interesting. I will say more in a while but for now I just wish to say that I believe DHK has the most accurate and clearly stated take on things up to this point. I think part of the problem we have to-date is a mix-up in our terminology. I have said at times that I believe that there is the local church that the Bible clearly teaches (the "ekklesia" or "assembly") AS WELL AS the supposed "Universal" "Church". I am ready now to change my "terminology" and say that there is what could rightly be referred to as the "BODY of Christ" (instead of any "universal" "church") which consists of the sum total of all believers past,present and future....but they (or "it") are not to be confused with the churches (although those who make up the local assemblies are a part of it). "THEY" are not "the church"...they are the body of Christ. However, I do believe, as a believer living in this dispensation of grace that we are currently in, that God does much, if not all, of His work in and through the ministry of the local churches or assemblies. I do believe He also uses some para-church organizations and ministries as long as they are not operating in opposition to the local church. It is even better if they are operating under the "authority" of the established New Testament local assemblies. God's "program" in this world at this time is the Gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ and its spread and propagation. We just need to be busy at the task of doing the Master's work (working in the fields of harvest). As far as I can tell....Paul's letters to the Ephesians and Colossians give the clearest teaching to support these matters. A trip through my Bible compliments of my Strong's Concordance made me arrive at that conclusion although I only scratched the surface. 1Corinthians offers some light as well. That's all I got for the moment. God Bless ya'll.
Bro.Greg:saint:
Stick to the OP Michael, which is explicitly speaking of local churches.
In my view there is no such thing as a "we are the church," or the universal church. The word (church) "ekklesia" means assembly, and it is impossible to have an unassembled assembly. A universal church has no purpose, no place of gathering, no direction, nothing. It is a metaphysical existential oddity that cannot and does not exist. Every time the word "church" is used in the Bible it is used in a "local church" setting.
Now that you have my rant for the day, stick with the OP.
It specifically asks What Makes A GOOD N.T. Local Church?
I guess since I invented this thread I ought to finally chime in. I just decided to lay back awhile and see how it developed. Interesting...very interesting. I will say more in a while but for now I just wish to say that I believe DHK has the most accurate and clearly stated take on things up to this point. I think part of the problem we have to-date is a mix-up in our terminology. I have said at times that I believe that there is the local church that the Bible clearly teaches (the "ekklesia" or "assembly") AS WELL AS the supposed "Universal" "Church". I am ready now to change my "terminology" and say that there is what could rightly be referred to as the "BODY of Christ" (instead of any "universal" "church") which consists of the sum total of all believers past,present and future....but they (or "it") are not to be confused with the churches (although those who make up the local assemblies are a part of it). "THEY" are not "the church"...they are the body of Christ. However, I do believe, as a believer living in this dispensation of grace that we are currently in, that God does much, if not all, of His work in and through the ministry of the local churches or assemblies. I do believe He also uses some para-church organizations and ministries as long as they are not operating in opposition to the local church. It is even better if they are operating under the "authority" of the established New Testament local assemblies. God's "program" in this world at this time is the Gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ and its spread and propagation. We just need to be busy at the task of doing the Master's work (working in the fields of harvest). As far as I can tell....Paul's letters to the Ephesians and Colossians give the clearest teaching to support these matters. A trip through my Bible compliments of my Strong's Concordance made me arrive at that conclusion although I only scratched the surface. 1Corinthians offers some light as well. That's all I got for the moment. God Bless ya'll.
Bro.Greg:saint:
I guess since I invented this thread I ought to finally chime in. I just decided to lay back awhile and see how it developed. Interesting...very interesting. I will say more in a while but for now I just wish to say that I believe DHK has the most accurate and clearly stated take on things up to this point. I think part of the problem we have to-date is a mix-up in our terminology. I have said at times that I believe that there is the local church that the Bible clearly teaches (the "ekklesia" or "assembly") AS WELL AS the supposed "Universal" "Church". I am ready now to change my "terminology" and say that there is what could rightly be referred to as the "BODY of Christ" (instead of any "universal" "church") which consists of the sum total of all believers past,present and future....but they (or "it") are not to be confused with the churches (although those who make up the local assemblies are a part of it). "THEY" are not "the church"...they are the body of Christ. However, I do believe, as a believer living in this dispensation of grace that we are currently in, that God does much, if not all, of His work in and through the ministry of the local churches or assemblies. I do believe He also uses some para-church organizations and ministries as long as they are not operating in opposition to the local church. It is even better if they are operating under the "authority" of the established New Testament local assemblies. God's "program" in this world at this time is the Gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ and its spread and propagation. We just need to be busy at the task of doing the Master's work (working in the fields of harvest). As far as I can tell....Paul's letters to the Ephesians and Colossians give the clearest teaching to support these matters. A trip through my Bible compliments of my Strong's Concordance made me arrive at that conclusion although I only scratched the surface. 1Corinthians offers some light as well. That's all I got for the moment. God Bless ya'll.
Bro.Greg:saint:
Well said!
:thumbs::thumbs::thumbs: