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What Makes One A LEGALIST?
- Thread starter Gregory Perry Sr.
- Start date
Thanks Mex. You're better than spellcheck. :thumbs:
Tom Butler
New Member
I'm late in joining this thread, and there's some good stuff here. Here are some thoughts.
To me, legalism is using extra-biblical criteria to measure one's spirituality, or to gauge if someone is saved. Sometimes those criteria are rooted in some scripture passage, but the goal posts keep changing.
Let me give some examples. We went through such a period 40 years ago in our church. Traditionally, pants or slacks on women were a no-no. Dresses were just fine. Fine, that is, until mini-skirts became popular with the younger women. Suddenly, slacks/pants looked pretty good, compared to mini-skirts.
I grew up in a Southern Baptist tee-totaller culture. Baptists didn't use alcohol, and we felt pretty self-righteous around those Methodists and Presbyterians who did and saw nothing wrong with it. We, of course, were more spiritual. And of course, it had to be grape juice for the Lord's Supper.
Today, we still use grape juice, but I'm aware of several churches which believe that the scriptures mandate fermented wine for communion. Hmmm, just like those Catholics. And, by the way, I know some really spiritual people who don't believe in total abstinence.
Do any of the women in your church wear hats to the services? Nobody does in my church any more. What about that covering we used to cite as the scriptural requirement?
Have you heard a sermon lately against long hair on men? Me, neither. But I heard a bunch of them on long hair and short skirts just a couple of decades ago. Haven't heard one on dancing, either. Wonder what happened?
I can recall the shock I felt when my pastor (back in the 1980s) called on a woman to pray in the church service.
Certainly, there are biblical standards for us believers to adhere to. Any other standards, need to be measured against what the Bible clearly teaches.
Does that mean that we men have to wear robes and grow beards, and women wear shawls over their heads? And women can't show any skin? Or have short hair?
That leads to the question, may we do only what the Bible mandates or allows? Or are we free to do anything the Bible doesn't specifically prohibit?
That's for another thread.
To me, legalism is using extra-biblical criteria to measure one's spirituality, or to gauge if someone is saved. Sometimes those criteria are rooted in some scripture passage, but the goal posts keep changing.
Let me give some examples. We went through such a period 40 years ago in our church. Traditionally, pants or slacks on women were a no-no. Dresses were just fine. Fine, that is, until mini-skirts became popular with the younger women. Suddenly, slacks/pants looked pretty good, compared to mini-skirts.
I grew up in a Southern Baptist tee-totaller culture. Baptists didn't use alcohol, and we felt pretty self-righteous around those Methodists and Presbyterians who did and saw nothing wrong with it. We, of course, were more spiritual. And of course, it had to be grape juice for the Lord's Supper.
Today, we still use grape juice, but I'm aware of several churches which believe that the scriptures mandate fermented wine for communion. Hmmm, just like those Catholics. And, by the way, I know some really spiritual people who don't believe in total abstinence.
Do any of the women in your church wear hats to the services? Nobody does in my church any more. What about that covering we used to cite as the scriptural requirement?
Have you heard a sermon lately against long hair on men? Me, neither. But I heard a bunch of them on long hair and short skirts just a couple of decades ago. Haven't heard one on dancing, either. Wonder what happened?
I can recall the shock I felt when my pastor (back in the 1980s) called on a woman to pray in the church service.
Certainly, there are biblical standards for us believers to adhere to. Any other standards, need to be measured against what the Bible clearly teaches.
Does that mean that we men have to wear robes and grow beards, and women wear shawls over their heads? And women can't show any skin? Or have short hair?
That leads to the question, may we do only what the Bible mandates or allows? Or are we free to do anything the Bible doesn't specifically prohibit?
That's for another thread.
A legalist is an antinomian who replaces God's law/word with man made rules.
saturneptune
New Member
The last thing intended by the Gospel is a license to sin under the excuse of the Gospel and God's mercy and grace given to us through faith in Jesus Christ. I think a legalist is a person is one who memorizes rules on conduct and attempts to obey them under their own power. It is a person who keeps a scoreboard towards getting into heaven by their actions. Since we are all sinners and fall short of the glory of God, it is hard to understand how anyone could come to the conclusion of being a legalist.
The Christian life if lived by a Spirit filled life, becoming more like Jesus everyday. In this, the obeying of rules the Lord has commanded becomes almost automatic, and has nothing to do with our own effort.
The difference between the two is which comes first. Obeying commands of the Lord without Jesus is a total waste of time and produces nothing. Having Jesus as ones most important possession, obeying rules becomes a natural action which follows salvation. I believe the whole book of James makes this quite clear.
Actually, antinomianism is the opposite of having any kind of rules or laws. "The Antinomian.--which holds that, since Christ's obedience and sufferings have satisfied the demands of the law, the believer is free from obligation to observe it" (Strong's Systematic Theology, p. 875).
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IMO, A definition of legalism also needs to be focused upon the doctrine of justification or sanctification. i.e of which kind of legalism do we speak?
In the first case man adds requirements as to how a human being is saved. e.g. In addition to having faith, a person must be baptised in water to be saved.
In the second man adds requirements as to how a person maintains sanctification. e.g. A person must receive the sacraments regularly to maintain a state of sanctifying grace.
etc, etc, etc...
HankD
In the first case man adds requirements as to how a human being is saved. e.g. In addition to having faith, a person must be baptised in water to be saved.
In the second man adds requirements as to how a person maintains sanctification. e.g. A person must receive the sacraments regularly to maintain a state of sanctifying grace.
etc, etc, etc...
HankD
May I throw a wrench in here?
Naturally, the four Baptist sins have been brought up
1)pants on women & long hair on men, 2) Dancing, 3) playing cards and 4) drinking.
Suppose the church only insisted that leaders of the church maintain those standards - and not the church membership at large?
Therefore does standards (for leaders) have a different meaning that legalism?
Naturally, the four Baptist sins have been brought up
1)pants on women & long hair on men, 2) Dancing, 3) playing cards and 4) drinking.
Suppose the church only insisted that leaders of the church maintain those standards - and not the church membership at large?
Therefore does standards (for leaders) have a different meaning that legalism?
I have quite a few women in my circle of friends, colleagues, and acquaitances that wear dresses only. Some, it's dresses only to church and others are dresses only period.
The overwhelming majority of these gals do so out of personal conviction or preference. (Some personally prefer because it was drilled into their heads growing up.) None of these women are legalists. They don't ask me about my pants at church or anywhere else. And they don't express themselves in dresses only to make themselves justified, righteous, or to boost their salvation.
But, there are a couple of ladies I know who are legalists in this area. I heard one of them say that she and her daughter regularly pray for women that they see in pants that they will get saved.
THAT'S legalism.
The overwhelming majority of these gals do so out of personal conviction or preference. (Some personally prefer because it was drilled into their heads growing up.) None of these women are legalists. They don't ask me about my pants at church or anywhere else. And they don't express themselves in dresses only to make themselves justified, righteous, or to boost their salvation.
But, there are a couple of ladies I know who are legalists in this area. I heard one of them say that she and her daughter regularly pray for women that they see in pants that they will get saved.
THAT'S legalism.
Excellent post! :thumbsup:
Correct JOJ,
That is why the antinomian becomes the legalist.They are against God's law....so what do they do?....they make their own list which is subjective and not really scriptural at all. It is a man made standard, based on culture, prejudice, bias, and few if any scripture at all.
You don't understand. It is impossible for a rules maker to be an antinomian. An antinomian is one who is against rules, thus "anti-" (against) -nomian (from the Gr. nomos, "law"). The legalist and the antinomian are direct opposites.
saturneptune
New Member
You might be a legalist if..............
You look at your watch as you look out a church window and watch different members arrive
You get in remote corners of the church will a group of old bats flapping their jaws about someone's conduct
You ask a fellow church member why so and so did not show up after seeing them last night
It irks you if someone is sitting in your regular pew seat (that was a hobby in high school)
You shake your head in response to the second point but are in the crowd
You give a waitress a lecture on working on Sunday as you stuff your fat gut
You are in a clique of deacons that think they run the church
It irks you if the pastor does not do things the way "they have always been done"
You look at your watch as you look out a church window and watch different members arrive
You get in remote corners of the church will a group of old bats flapping their jaws about someone's conduct
You ask a fellow church member why so and so did not show up after seeing them last night
It irks you if someone is sitting in your regular pew seat (that was a hobby in high school)
You shake your head in response to the second point but are in the crowd
You give a waitress a lecture on working on Sunday as you stuff your fat gut
You are in a clique of deacons that think they run the church
It irks you if the pastor does not do things the way "they have always been done"
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JOJ
Hello John.....I do understand what an anti nomian is.
What i am saying is a biblical antinomian, sets asides God's law...claiming he is under grace......yet having a conscience he knows something is off...morally...he without God's word drifts morally,and ethically.
So the biblical antinomian.....substitues his own "Law".[some man made legalistic standard]....but yet as concerns God's actual law he denies it is in effect ...so biblically remains a "biblical antinomian":thumbsup::thumbsup:
But this biblical antinomian transforms himself into a legalist with rules that often violate biblical laws or principles, infringing on the liberty of others around them:wavey:
You've lost me completely. I have no idea what you are saying. Maybe if you gave an example of someone doing this in real life...?
Another name for legalist---religious person!
The Gospel means "good news". However, there's another influence operating in the church that disguises itself as the Christian Gospel. This influence (a counterfeit) is called "religion." Religion and Christianity are two opposing ideologies. Yet, they appear as "look-alikes". The majority of Christians are taught that they are the same. Many people live under the dictates of religion while desiring the benefits of the Gospel--but God does not respect this choice. Religion is "The way that seemeth right unto a man but the end thereof is the ways of death (Proverbs 16:25)". Religion masquerades as a relationship with God, which acknowledges a "type" of personal faith, and is based in performance or some system of works usually associated with some kind of church or denominational affiliation. Religion misuses and twists Scripture to prove its declarations. It subtly places us in a position of "performing" as a means to gain God's acceptance. Christianity is a relationship with God based only on one's faith (trust) in Jesus Christ as the Son of God who permanently took their sins away. Christianity places us in a position of rest because Jesus has already performed every work necessary to secure salvation for us. Until we expose the counterfeit of religion and repent of it, the Gospel will have little benefit. Religion "short-circuits" the blessings of the Gospel. In America (and the world), Christianity has been made into a religion and few are aware of its dangerous deceptions.
Thousand Hills
Active Member
Hey, hey now, your stepping on some toes there, better be careful. :laugh:
Specifically the sin of being a modern day Pharisee!
Here's a good article about this subject:
http://www.christianpost.com/news/how-to-spot-a-legalist-92015/#vyFpf9hhuOoWjGGP.01
http://www.christianpost.com/news/how-to-spot-a-legalist-92015/#vyFpf9hhuOoWjGGP.01