Sure is a small world! Who knows, maybe we met each other way back when!
I did the six year thing, too, working full time at Cumberland Corp.
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What Rice Doctrines Do You differ With ?
- Thread starter Rippon
- Start date
I did the six year thing, too, working full time at Cumberland Corp.
I will try to explain...
"totally unaware" --- read that "stooopid, stooopid, stooopid..."
How about, "Boetner fails to interact with the many other writers who hold differing positions..."
"so biased that he plays down the facts and omits them in this case" --- read that "This guy is willing to lie and cheat to sell his ridiculous garbage..."
How about "He seems unaware of the writing by... which totally undercuts his argument..."
and
"the viewpoint of a narrow-minded , warped sectarian" --- read that "What is wrong with this guy, HE DOES NOT AGREE WITH ME ON THIS!"
I have Boetner's work of the RC Church. It is a classic. Is it perfect. No. Do I agree with everything in it. No. In fact there is only one book for which I profess to agree with every thing the author says... And to be completely transparent here, sometimes He says some things that really bother me. I would have written some of it differently. Do I criticize him? No, because I know that one day I will stand before Him, and then He can explain the parts I did not get.
Boldness is good. Determination is good. Arrogance, on the other hand, is not so good. Brother, I have been there and I still struggle with it at times. Hey, it is hard not to be proud when you are as smart as I am! Sad thing is, sometimes I DO act that way, and sometimes I almost have myself convinced that it is OK because I am so smart...
Pride goes before what...
Just one more... "whosoever shall say, Thou fool..." (Matt 5:22)
Bro, you got a lot on the ball. Sharp mind, keen sense of right and wrong. Temper it with a little respect for the ancients and a little bit more tenderness and compassion for the young upstarts like you and me... We have not developed as tough a hide yet... Just let's not develop calloused hearts. OK?
Rippon, if doctrine is your key concern, why not drop the references to JRR and stick to the facts?
What have you got to lose by leaving individual atacks behind?
Surely by now you have seen this approach will not work. If you really want to talk doctrine then I am sure there will be plenty here to engage you.
What have you got to lose by leaving individual atacks behind?
Surely by now you have seen this approach will not work. If you really want to talk doctrine then I am sure there will be plenty here to engage you.
The point of my thread was to find out what teachings of JRR supporters of the same differ with . Only one has done so . Am I to assume that all non-Calvinists are in agreement with Rice's positions ?
I believe in the free proclamation of God's Word , the duty of people to believe and repent , to turn to Jesus alone for salvation . All of the Calvinists on this board and the men JRR called out by name had the same stance . The term " hyper-Calvinist " has to applied honestly -- Both Rices' have not done so -- many here as well . There is no regret . There is no acknowlegement that anything Rice said was wrong or sinful . All I hear is that he was a great man . He castigated others constantly in-print but that is overlooked somehow to people with selective lenses .
His teaching on 1 Cor.15:22 ( and by implication Ro.5:12-19 ) were in serious departure from orthodoxy . That is just one example of a famous " Bible Teacher " who did not teach according to the Word .
Paul named people by name who were in error . I am doing the same .
I believe in the free proclamation of God's Word , the duty of people to believe and repent , to turn to Jesus alone for salvation . All of the Calvinists on this board and the men JRR called out by name had the same stance . The term " hyper-Calvinist " has to applied honestly -- Both Rices' have not done so -- many here as well . There is no regret . There is no acknowlegement that anything Rice said was wrong or sinful . All I hear is that he was a great man . He castigated others constantly in-print but that is overlooked somehow to people with selective lenses .
His teaching on 1 Cor.15:22 ( and by implication Ro.5:12-19 ) were in serious departure from orthodoxy . That is just one example of a famous " Bible Teacher " who did not teach according to the Word .
Paul named people by name who were in error . I am doing the same .
And by constantly pushing JRR's name into threads you have achieved something?
Rightly or wrongly you are not winning any one over by your method.
It has been said, "People don't care what you know until they know that you care." (It may have even been JRR, I think it was from his era.)
No one is paying any attention to your doctrine because of your method of putting it across.
If your message is so important then drop the element that is hindereing your ability to convey that message.
Rightly or wrongly you are not winning any one over by your method.
It has been said, "People don't care what you know until they know that you care." (It may have even been JRR, I think it was from his era.)
No one is paying any attention to your doctrine because of your method of putting it across.
If your message is so important then drop the element that is hindereing your ability to convey that message.
I knew there was some reason I liked you, tinytim!
I got my first very own book from Grandad when I was about 8. I "helped" him run his book table at a special meeting, and he let me choose whatever I wanted. I chose The Soul Winner's Fire because I liked the cover, but it ended up having a great impact on my life. I still have the book!
I have not had the pleasure of meeting C4K. Though he is good friends with some good friends of mine. I have met his son though. Hopefully I'll meet him in person some time this side of glory.
My one concern is that I think he may support Chelsea FC... but I realise the bad influence that may have led to that, so it isn't really his fault.
Do you know him?
My one concern is that I think he may support Chelsea FC... but I realise the bad influence that may have led to that, so it isn't really his fault.
Do you know him?
I had a once in a lifetime chance to meet C4K---BUT---the chance was blown!!
I was scheduled to preach a series of messages in a little "Preaching Tour" of the UK--England and Wales a little over a year ago---and I wrote C4K to see if I could "motor" up or him down--one of the two
But it turned out that the same dates I was in the UK--he was in the US--we crossed paths and didn't even know it!!
Sorry, Roger!
David
NaasPreacher (C4K)
Well-Known Member
A bunch of us passed through TBS - I was there from 80-83.
You think I am going to take a chance of meeting any of you guys in person
? Although I am going to be in SW GA in May rjprince.
Not every is going to agree with all that Dr Rice preached, wrote, or said. I don't. But I am not going to dedicate my life in a attempt to destroy his reputation either.
Matter of fact, I don't want to spend my life doing that to any man.
paidagogos
Active Member
Although I highly esteemed Dr. Rice, I did not agree with everything he may have said, wrote, or taught although I did agree in most things. However, I have an undying love, respect and admiration for his convictions, his compassion, and his sincere burden for poor lost souls. I will never forget his crying as he preached the Gospel. I remember him telling of his embarrassment about crying as a young preacher. He prayed and asked the Lord to take away the tears, which God did. Dr. Rice’s preaching and harvest of souls dried up with the tears. Dr. Rice prayed for the Lord to give back the tears and the power to win souls. Of course, you know the rest of the story.
It is highly ironic, IHMO, that some who so loudly profess allegiance to the doctrines of grace know so little grace in their own lives that they cannot show grace toward a dear brother and saint of God. It’s a pity.
It is highly ironic, IHMO, that some who so loudly profess allegiance to the doctrines of grace know so little grace in their own lives that they cannot show grace toward a dear brother and saint of God. It’s a pity.
Well said, Paidagogos.
John R. Rice believed that a preacher who could preach on Hell without weeping was backslidden.
Rippon,
I think if you would have posted your questions leaving Dr. Rice out of it you would have gotten a better response. When people feel they or someone they love is being attacked they will naturally act defensive. Maybe you did not mean to attack Dr. Rice personally, but it did come across as if you were trying to disprove Dr. Rice by forcing us to admit we did not agree with him.
I am going to answer your original question in general.
Do I agree with everything that Dr. Rice believed and taught? No. What or why does not matter. Here are some other people I disagree with.
I love BJU, but do not agree with everything there.
I love my pastor, but do not agree with him on everything.
I love my husband dearly and we are very close, but even he and I do not agree on everything.
I have changed my mind and way of thinking several times over the years so I guess I don't even agree with myself on everything.
I think if you would have posted your questions leaving Dr. Rice out of it you would have gotten a better response. When people feel they or someone they love is being attacked they will naturally act defensive. Maybe you did not mean to attack Dr. Rice personally, but it did come across as if you were trying to disprove Dr. Rice by forcing us to admit we did not agree with him.
I am going to answer your original question in general.
Do I agree with everything that Dr. Rice believed and taught? No. What or why does not matter. Here are some other people I disagree with.
I love BJU, but do not agree with everything there.
I love my pastor, but do not agree with him on everything.
I love my husband dearly and we are very close, but even he and I do not agree on everything.
I have changed my mind and way of thinking several times over the years so I guess I don't even agree with myself on everything.
In the church I grew up in we had some books in our (Fundamental Baptist) church library that were compilations of answers to questions by various pastors. There was one that I believe was by John Rice--by one of the big name guys. I remember he was strongly opposed to blood transfusions on the grounds that it was like eating blood, which is forbidden, and because some part of the donor's nature might be transfused with the blood (very bad if the donor was a bad person). Does this sound like John Rice, at least John Rice in the 1950's or 1960's?
I Am Blessed 24
Active Member
That sounds more like Ron L. Hubbard - Scientology or Christian Scientists.