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What Should Christians Believe about the Causes of Demon Possession?

What Should Christians Believe about the Causes of Demon Possession?

  • We cannot know anything about the causes.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • We can know some things about the causes, but we cannot be sure about those things being causes.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • We can be certain that certain things have caused demon possession.

    Votes: 3 75.0%
  • Other (please explain in a comment)

    Votes: 1 25.0%

  • Total voters
    4

Ben1445

Well-Known Member
They cannot do so on their own apart from proper ministry from a servant of the Lord.

No unbeliever can on his own open his own eyes and transfer himself out of the kingdom of darkness into the kingdom of God's Son.

Acts 17:24-29
God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands; Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things; And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation; That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us: For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring. Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.
 

Scripture More Accurately

Well-Known Member
Acts 17:24-29
God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands; Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things; And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation; That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us: For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring. Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.
This is moving far from what the discussion should be in this thread. There are other forums for this kind of discussion.

It is noteworthy to me that you have as yet not acknowledged that there are numerous people in the world who actually do knowingly and with direct intent engage in occult activities for the purpose of contact with spirits and being possessed by them. I wonder now whether you deny that such people and such activities even exist.
 
Agreed. Not seemingly random whoever the devil picks at will. Rather, who ever is picked at will is who has made themselves available for the devil to control.
Scenario #1: A woman goes to a witch to place a curse on her husband. She pays the witch's fee. The witch performs the necessary ritual to summon and send the demon. The demon goes to the husband and finds that he is in a state of grace, so the curse (i.e. the damage that the demon was sent to do) cannot be carried out and the demon leaves.

Scenario #2: The woman goes back to the witch and tries to curse hubby again. The witch performs a more elaborate ritual, which costs the woman more money. This time, the devil stays with the husband for the whole day. But the husband is in a state of grace for the whole day so the devil cannot effectively cause harm to him and the devil leaves.

Scenario #3: The woman goes back to the witch. She pays big bucks, so the witch does a sacrifice ritual (this one requires blood), to summon a most powerful demon. The demon goes to the husband and stays with him for 30 days. On Day 27, the man falls from grace and the demon now has legal right to afflict the husband...

Ultimately, control of persons by devils is the result of not resisting the devil.
Rather, what behavior resulted in the opening of a door to a devil in the first instance?

These are verses directed to believers. I do not believe that they apply to unbelievers.
Unbelievers are the walking dead, as per scripture. They are like cities without walls i.e. defenseless.

Even Jesus did not ask how someone got an evil spirit in them. He asked how long a child had one. But He just commanded them to come out.

Notice that none of the epistles of Paul, Peter, James, or John talk about demon possession.

It is an unhealthy obssession.
Jesus said we will do greater works than he did. A major part of his ministry was casting out devils. He came to set the captives free.

These are the kinds of comments that are a key reason that a discussion like this is vitally important.

2 Timothy 2:24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, 25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; 26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

Demon possession is captivity by the devil.
Again, we must understand that it's not about "possession" per se but about degree of control.

They certainly apply to unbelievers. If unbelievers follow those instructions, they may expect nothing less than the devil to flee.
Again, unbelievers are powerless. Having said that, there have been instances when an unbeliever cried out to God in their moment of need and God graciously elected to "rescue" that person.

2 Timothy 2:24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, 25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;

[It then follows that they may continue to recover themselves. But they must first stop opposing themselves.]


26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.
Yeah, the "opposing themselves" is a major factor, as a double minded (dipsuchos, two-spirited) man is unstable in all his ways.

They cannot do so on their own apart from proper ministry from a servant of the Lord.

No unbeliever can on his own open his own eyes and transfer himself out of the kingdom of darkness into the kingdom of God's Son.
Generally true. However, it ultimately is God's call in that scenario.

...and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation; That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us: For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring. Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.
Paul is appealing to / proselytizing unbelievers.

...there are numerous people in the world who actually do knowingly and with direct intent engage in occult activities for the purpose of contact with spirits and being possessed by them.
This is absolutely true. I have dealt with the same. And the degree of "possession" varies among them. They are a very vain and selfish bunch, no true love between them. They literally walk around saying "I got more demons that youuuuu do!" You have seen the t-shirt: "It's all about me."
 
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Ben1445

Well-Known Member
This is moving far from what the discussion should be in this thread. There are other forums for this kind of discussion.
It is not drifting. You don’t seem to think that the Bible applies to unbelievers.
I think that it is noteworthy that you don’t seem to believe that God is available or even thought of by those who are “possessed.”
I think it is noteworthy that you draw distinctions where they need not be drawn.
1 Peter 5:8-9
Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour: Whom resist stedfast in the faith, knowing that the same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world.


I think it is relevant. But for some reason, you think that getting people to repeat and claim to believe what you do is what a forum is for. I’m sorry if you miss the importance of there not being any difference between the believer and the unbeliever when it comes to submission to God and resisting the devil.
It is noteworthy to me that you have as yet not acknowledged that there are numerous people in the world who actually do knowingly and with direct intent engage in occult activities for the purpose of contact with spirits and being possessed by them. I wonder now whether you deny that such people and such activities even exist.
We have been discussing this. I would have thought that that was acknowledgement enough. But if you will go back and review the thread, you will remember that I am the one who keeps saying that people are knowingly and willingly giving permission to give control over to devils. If that is not, as you say,
knowingly and with direct intent engage in occult activities for the purpose of contact with spirits and being possessed by them,
then I don’t know what is.
The only thing I can assume is that you have either mistaken me for someone else or that you are in cognitive decline.
 

Ben1445

Well-Known Member
Again, unbelievers are powerless. Having said that, there have been instances when an unbeliever cried out to God in their moment of need and God graciously elected to "rescue" that person.
Believers are just as powerless.

John 15:5
I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

That is why we are told in the book of James to submit to God in conjunction with resisting the devil.
 

Scripture More Accurately

Well-Known Member
It is not drifting. You don’t seem to think that the Bible applies to unbelievers.
I think that it is noteworthy that you don’t seem to believe that God is available or even thought of by those who are “possessed.”
I think it is noteworthy that you draw distinctions where they need not be drawn.
1 Peter 5:8-9
Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour: Whom resist stedfast in the faith, knowing that the same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world.


I think it is relevant. But for some reason, you think that getting people to repeat and claim to believe what you do is what a forum is for. I’m sorry if you miss the importance of there not being any difference between the believer and the unbeliever when it comes to submission to God and resisting the devil.

We have been discussing this. I would have thought that that was acknowledgement enough. But if you will go back and review the thread, you will remember that I am the one who keeps saying that people are knowingly and willingly giving permission to give control over to devils. If that is not, as you say,

then I don’t know what is.
The only thing I can assume is that you have either mistaken me for someone else or that you are in cognitive decline.
You believe that 1 Peter 5:8-9 teaches that unbelievers are our brethren? This is a more serious interpretational problem than just about anything else that you have said. To say that "brethren" in that passage includes unbelievers is to mishandle the Bible in a very serious way.

In spite of how serious I believe your error is in not interpreting the Bible correctly, I will not stoop to your level of insulting you, as you have done to me by suggesting that I might be "in cognitive decline."

This kind of conduct is unacceptable for a Christian.
 
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Scripture More Accurately

Well-Known Member
Again, we must understand that it's not about "possession" per se but about degree of control.
At this time, I do not agree with your understanding of "possession" versus "degree of control." I will respond further to your views on that specific point after I have had time to consider them more and think through why I find it problematic.
 
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