What Sins Are Christians Capable Of?

[His Blood Spoke My Name]

The Bible does not say the virgins had oil in their lamps, only in their vessels.

Also, did it ever occur to you that the foolish virgins may have hoped to convince the wise ones that they ran out of oil instead of admitting the truth that they brought no oil like the Bible says.

But the wise virgins brought oil in their vessels...

Does not say 'and in their lamps,' says 'and their lamps.' They brought oil, and their lamps.

 

[Hope of Glory]

I'm not sure what they believe, but even a blind squirrel finds a nut every now and then

This was said in relation to the Catholic church. The original statement made some sort of insulting and disparaging remark toward J. Jump about the RCC.

Well, the RCC is pro-life. Should we ignore that simply because the RCC espouses it?

 

[Hope of Glory]

As has been stated and shown, Israel is the bride of Jehovah, not Christ.

Unless you want to destroy the laws given about multiple husbands, etc.

Not only was Israel brought into the bondage of the law at Sinai, but she also was bound to Jehovah as His wife. He became her Husband:

Jeremiah 31:32: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:

Then it was that He put upon her His comeliness:

Ezekiel 16:8-14: Now when I passed by thee, and looked upon thee, behold, thy time was the time of love; and I spread my skirt over thee, and covered thy nakedness: yea, I sware unto thee, and entered into a covenant with thee, saith the Lord GOD, and thou becamest mine. Then washed I thee with water; yea, I throughly washed away thy blood from thee, and I anointed thee with oil. I clothed thee also with broidered work, and shod thee with badgers' skin, and I girded thee about with fine linen, and I covered thee with silk. I decked thee also with ornaments, and I put bracelets upon thy hands, and a chain on thy neck. And I put a jewel on thy forehead, and earrings in thine ears, and a beautiful crown upon thine head. Thus wast thou decked with gold and silver; and thy raiment was of fine linen, and silk, and broidered work; thou didst eat fine flour, and honey, and oil: and thou wast exceeding beautiful, and thou didst prosper into a kingdom. And thy renown went forth among the heathen for thy beauty: for it was perfect through my comeliness, which I had put upon thee, saith the Lord GOD.

Not only did they break the law in minor matters, but they failed in the very first commandment. Instead of loving Him with all their hearts and souls, they forsook Him and sought solace with His enemies:

Hos 2:6-13: Therefore, behold, I will hedge up thy way with thorns, and make a wall, that she shall not find her paths. And she shall follow after her lovers, but she shall not overtake them; and she shall seek them, but shall not find them: then shall she say, I will go and return to my first husband; for then was it better with me than now. For she did not know that I gave her corn, and wine, and oil, and multiplied her silver and gold, which they prepared for Baal. Therefore will I return, and take away my corn in the time thereof, and my wine in the season thereof, and will recover my wool and my flax given to cover her nakedness. And now will I discover her lewdness in the sight of her lovers, and none shall deliver her out of mine hand. I will also cause all her mirth to cease, her feast days, her new moons, and her sabbaths, and all her solemn feasts. And I will destroy her vines and her fig trees, whereof she hath said, These are my rewards that my lovers have given me: and I will make them a forest, and the beasts of the field shall eat them. And I will visit upon her the days of Baalim, wherein she burned incense to them, and she decked herself with her earrings and her jewels, and she went after her lovers, and forgat me, saith the LORD.

Then, he put her away, which caused them to go into captivity:

Deuteronomy 24:1-4: When a man hath taken a wife, and married her, and it come to pass that she find no favour in his eyes, because he hath found some uncleanness in her: then let him write her a bill of divorcement, and give it in her hand, and send her out of his house. And when she is departed out of his house, she may go and be another man's wife. And if the latter husband hate her, and write her a bill of divorcement, and giveth it in her hand, and sendeth her out of his house; or if the latter husband die, which took her to be his wife; Her former husband, which sent her away, may not take her again to be his wife, after that she is defiled; for that is abomination before the LORD: and thou shalt not cause the land to sin, which the LORD thy God giveth thee for an inheritance.

Then, he invites her to return. God's heart is not hardened by the failure of His people:

Jeremiah 3:1: They say, If a man put away his wife, and she go from him, and become another man's, shall he return unto her again? shall not that land be greatly polluted? but thou hast played the harlot with many lovers; yet return again to me, saith the LORD.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

I disagree, HoG...

The foolish virgins were lying about the oil. They had none. They never had any to begin with. The oil, as pointed out by HBSMN was carried in the vessels.

 

[Hope of Glory]

The Bible does not say the virgins had oil in their lamps, only in their vessels.

Then perhaps you can explain how their lamps were going out.

Also, did it ever occur to you that the foolish virgins may have hoped to convince the wise ones that they ran out of oil instead of admitting the truth that they brought no oil

Did it ever occur to you to simply take what the Bible says, that their lamps were going out, and not try to add, "Well, perhaps it was really like this..."?

like the Bible says.

Well, since the Bible says that the wise ones brought additional oil, and the lamps of the foolish virgins were going out, that is exactly and precisely like the Bible says.

But the wise virgins brought oil in their vessels...

You got this part right, but then...

Does not say 'and in their lamps,' says 'and their lamps.' They brought oil, and their lamps.

You missed the mark on this one.

They took oil in vessels with their lamps. Their lamps were lit. How did they light the lamps with no oil?

 

[Hope of Glory]

I disagree, HoG...

The foolish virgins were lying about the oil. They had none. They never had any to begin with. The oil, as pointed out by HBSMN was carried in the vessels.

Then you are calling God a liar.

If he's lying about this, or if you simply suppose based upon absolutely no Scriptural evidence whatsoever that the foolish virgins were lying, where does that stop? Perhaps the writers were lying about the walls of Jericho, or perhaps they were lying about the resurrection, or perhaps they are lying about God period.

You cannot pick and choose without Scriptural support.

The Bible says their lamps were going out.

Even if you deny the infallibility of the underlying text and subscribe to KJVOnlyism, their lamps had gone out.

They were lit.

They had oil.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

God is not a liar. His Word says 'gone out.' Gone out is past tense... it was supposed to have already happened.

The phrase 'are gone out' can be found 4 times in the Bible. In all four times the phrase denotes a past tense action. Something that has happened.

 

[Hope of Glory]

God is not a liar. His Word says 'gone out.' Gone out is past tense... it was supposed to have already happened.

The phrase 'are gone out' can be found 4 times in the Bible. In all four times the phrase denotes a past tense action. Something that has happened.

It's a present, passive, indicative. Do you comprehend this? This is current action, not punctiliar action.

What is so difficult about understanding a present tense verb?

Even if you deny the Scriptures, and you stand by "gone out", how had they gone out if they were never lit?

 

[His Blood Spoke My Name]

It is interesting how even bridesmaids at a Hindu wedding will follow scripture by going to a place to wait for the bridegroom. When he appears, the cry is made, just as in scripture, 'Behold, the bridegroom cometh. Go ye out to meet him.'

At that time, the bridesmaids will light their torches and go to join the wedding party.

I don't agree with Hindu faith, but find it interesting that they perform the same ceremony as recorded in Matthew 25. And the lamps are not lit until the arrival of the Bridegroom is announced.

In Matthew 25, the arrival of the Bridegroom is announced, the lamps are quickly lit, but the foolish virgins did not carry oil to burn. They were unable to light the lamps.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

HBSMN,

Interesting.

 

[Hope of Glory]

Technically, the wedding ceremony was around long before being recorded in Scriptures, but what I'm interested in is what the Scriptures say:

"Our lamps are going out!"

They were lit.

They had oil.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

As has been pointed out, the KJV does not say 'are going out.' It says, 'are gone out.'

 

[ituttut]

We Christians are also the sons of God.

Whoops, overlooked one

The Bible tells us that we are all children of God, but not all children will be adopted as sons, which will happen in the future.

Those in the Body Church are sons of God.

Quote:
It is Christ that overcame, not we in Him. If we overcome, we are of works. You are putting us on the same level as Christ.



Not at all. We will never be on the level of Christ, but we have to understand and believe what the Bible tells us. And the Bible tells us that we can be co-heirs with Christ if we overcome just as He overcame.

No human being can overcome Satan. No angel will take on Satan, but you will?

We don't overcome through our own strength, but we overcome as we die to self and let the Holy Spirit manifest the life of Christ in us.

At the Cross we meet Him, and become apart of His Church, His Body that "overcame" We are in Him that overcame. It has been done for us and we are all One in Him. We cannot alone die to self, for that is we alone attempting the impossible.
You contradict for you say "We don't overcome through our own strength" which is true. You then turn around and say "we overcome as we die to self."

Some Christians will overcome the flesh, Satan and the world as Christ did and others will be overcome by one, two or all three of these things, and will not realize their inheritance.

We in these bodies cannot overcome what we live in. We are still in these sinful bodies, as saved sinners. We will never be perfect as long as we are living in these bodies. If some overcome the "flesh", why do they suffer, and why do they die? We must wait for our glorified bodies.

Quote:
again you are miquoting Scripture


How can you say this. I put the Scripture in the text. Here it is again Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession," Psalms 2:8. It says that Christ will receive the heathen as His inheritance and the uttermost parts of the earth for His possession. I didn't make it up. That's what it says.

You slipped up a few posts ago and include all of what I posted, and you misquoted me in your reply. I would not have said you misquoted scripture unless you did. And since you didn't furnish what I posted I'll stick with what I wrote.

Quote:
We are not His until He inherits us


Again you have provided no Scripture evidence of this. No where in the Bible does it say that Christians, saved, born again - whatever you want to call us - are Christ's inheritance. If there is please show me so we can deal with that Scripture or Scriptures.

Let me put it another way, also by scripture. "In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:
12. That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.
13. In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
14. Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory., Ephesians 1:11-14.

We were predestined (He inherited us) which was His purpose. He is now holding His inheritance (we in the Body Church), which is guaranteed now, and until the redemption of this purchased possession. If this does not satisfy your soul, then please don't believe it, for it would be sin for you to believe in your faith that Christ has no inheritance. He gets ziltch for His work.

 

[Hope of Glory]

As has been pointed out, the KJV does not say 'are going out.' It says, 'are gone out.'

And as has been pointed out, the Scriptures contain a present, passive, indicative, which is not punctiliar, but is linear, but even if you do hold that they have gone out, they were lit. You cannot extinguish a fire that has never been lit.

BTW, here's the KJV 1611 translators' note on the verse:

Matthew 25:8: And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out. {gone out: or, going out}

So, even the KJV translators saw the possibility that they were in error.

It's a present, passive.

Do you understand what a present tense verb is?

Do you comprehend that for something to be going out, or to have already gone out, it had to have been lit?

 

[ituttut]

Originally Posted by J. Jump

Like not all Christians make up the bride of Christ, but only those that are faithful and overcoming. Well Christians don't like to hear that so they say you can't prove this with types. But not only is this Truth found in types in is further explained in the NT.


Yes, people take one extreme or the other, neither of which is scriptural.

I believe I also am being addressed here. To this end I wish to respond. There are three positions we can take, Right, Wrong and in-between. I have made my choice and know I'm secure in He that chose me to be in His Body Chuch.

One side realizes that their salvation is secure, but they don't want to have to deny self to be obedient, so they want to see that everyone will have all that the Lord has promised.

You mischaracterize me and others, leaving out those in this group that understand they are not to attempt to try and improve upon the work that Christ has performed. We "deny, or refuse" to come under the dominion of sin. We don't get in it and battle our way through for then we give ourselves the glory, and not Christ.


Where do you stand in the matter……..right, wrong or inbetween?

The other side says that you have to endure to the end to prove you're saved or to remain saved or whatever other sort of camoflauge they want to use to hide a works-based salvation. But, if you endure and you're saved, then you're part of the bride.

The types and pictures presented throughout Scripture in several places shows that the Bride is taken from the body of believers and not every believer will be part of the Bride.

Yes. God chose the believers that will be the Bride.

 

[StraightAndNarrow]

StraightandNarrow I don't think you even read my post. Do a word study on aionios. In this context it means age-lasting not forever. Those that are found to be unfaithful Christians will receive punishment for the coming age (loss of their soul). And that is in perfect keeping with the statement that Christ makes here in this passage.

Everlasting punishment as heaven is an oxymoron and is something that I have never stated. You continue to put words in my mouth. I never even hinted at that.

By the way if you'll choose God's heaven can you show me Scripture that says that's where you will reside for eternity?

How does someone lose their eternal soul? But you're saying that they will only lose it for 1000 years if I understand you correctly. Here's my word study on aionis:

1) without beginning and end, that which always has been and always will be

Seems to mean ETERNAL. I see nothing here about the coming age.

What do you think God's punishment will be for spreading a false religion?

 

[J. Jump]

Those in the Body Church are sons of God.

Where is your Scripture evidence that says we "are" sons now?

No human being can overcome Satan. No angel will take on Satan, but you will?

Stand firm and he will flee from you. Sounds like a human can overcome Satan. Not only can we, but we must. I'll have more to say about this in response to another one of your statements.

At the Cross we meet Him, and become apart of His Church, His Body that "overcame" We are in Him that overcame.

That is exactly true for positional/eternal purposes.

We cannot alone die to self, for that is we alone attempting the impossible.

You contradict for you say "We don't overcome through our own strength" which is true. You then turn around and say "we overcome as we die to self."

Everything that we do that amounts to anything is done by God's grace. Everything! But God's grace is God doing for you what He requires of you and then giving you credit as if you did it yourself.

So when I say we are to overcome. It is actually the Holy Spirit living out the manifested life of the overcoming Christ in us, but we are given credit as if we did it ourselves. Paul speaks in the same language. He says I finished the race and I fought the good fight. But Paul knew he didn't have anything to do with it, but was just given credit for it.

We in these bodies cannot overcome what we live in. We are still in these sinful bodies, as saved sinners. We will never be perfect as long as we are living in these bodies. If some overcome the "flesh", why do they suffer, and why do they die? We must wait for our glorified bodies.

Not only can we, but we must. Paul tells us to mortify the deeds of the body. Paul says we should not be a slave to sin. Paul says don't allow your flesh to win, etc., etc. There are all kinds of places where we are told to make the right choice as to the war that is going on between our flesh and the Spirit.

The Spirit doesn't impose His will on you, we must cooperate with the Spirit.

Let me put it another way, also by scripture. "In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:
12. That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.
13. In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
14. Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory., Ephesians 1:11-14.

We were predestined (He inherited us) which was His purpose. He is now holding His inheritance (we in the Body Church), which is guaranteed now, and until the redemption of this purchased possession. If this does not satisfy your soul, then please don't believe it, for it would be sin for you to believe in your faith that Christ has no inheritance. He gets ziltch for His work.

And again you have used a Scripture that does not say Christians are Christ's inheritance. This Scripture says we have an inhertiance as believers, but nothing about Christ's inheritance being us. You are clearly reading into these passages what you want to be there, and it is clearly not there.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

you ask for scripture evidence that we are sons of God?

1 John 3:2 2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

 

[J. Jump]

How does someone lose their eternal soul? But you're saying that they will only lose it for 1000 years if I understand you correctly.

StraightandNarrow I'm not exactly sure how that works out because we are not given specific revelation regarding that. To be perfectly honest I don't think our focus should be on those particulars, but just to know that it is a possibility. And what revelation we have been given is bleak enough that we would know we don't want to have that experience.

As to your other statement it is not my words, but Scripture.

Here's my word study on aionis:

1) without beginning and end, that which always has been and always will be

Seems to mean ETERNAL. I see nothing here about the coming age.

When I said do a word study I didn't mean go to a lexicon and read some other "man's" works. I meant do a word study and see what the word means.

But let me do your homework for you, although I have already stated this I think before. Aionios is a Greek adjective, which means it is a descriptive word. It's a descriptive word that desribes the root word it comes from which is the Greek noun aion. Aion means age. A beginning and an end.

So why would a word be used to mean eternal which is actually totally opposite of the root word? That doesn't even make sense.

Now granted the word can mean eternal when used in connection with God, because we know God is eternal. But outside of that it means age-lasting, which is actually descriptive of the root word it describes.

Now just for kicks and giggles let's use your definition and see if it actually works.

So aionions means eternal, without beginning or end. Let's just plug that into the Bible's most famous verse John 3:16.

For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

So if I believe in Christ I will have life that never had a beginning and will never had an end? That won't work, because the life that you receive has a beginning to it. It begins the moment you receive Christ and not before.

So your definition can't even be used.

You can continue to dance around the Scripture as much as you want, but it's just plainly not saying what you want it to say.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Stand firm and he will flee from you.

Wrong..

The Word of God says...

James 4:7 7 Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.

According to Ephesians 6 we are told 'And having done all, stand', but just standing is not going to fight the devil. And it certainly is not going to make him tuck tail and run.

One must be first submitted under the mighty hand of God. One can try to resist the devil on one's own until doomsday and it will do no good whatsoever. We must be submitted to God and to His Holy Spirit in our lives.