According to this list - there are about 5 in Maryland
and thats it for the North
and thats it for the North
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What Statement of Faith does your Church subscribe to?
- Thread starter Mikey
- Start date
Alan Gross
Well-Known Member
The commentary/clarifications will generally omit various portions of the Confessions.
The Beliefs, from LexPBC, are probably intended to be very brief and concise, however, as seen from the 1644 LCF, there has to be some select items omitted to jive with their doctrine of more resent origination, such as those marked in bold, below, along with their accompanying scriptures;
The doctrine at issue is the preaching of the Gospel as a means by which God Saves souls.
One of the discriptions of their belief goes,
"Missionaries: Primitive Baptist beliefs say the elect will be saved by Christ and Christ alone.
"Missionaries cannot "save souls."
"Mission work is not mentioned in the gifts of the church in Ephesians 4:11.
"One reason Primitives split from other Baptists was a disagreement over missions boards," etc., etc.
And from:
http://baptiststudiesonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/1st-london-1644-ed.pdf
"10. Don't you believe that the preaching of the gospel is God's ordained means of bringing eternal salvation to the sinner?
"No, only by the direct operation of the Holy Spirit can eternal life be brought to the dead sinner (John 3:6-8). The gospel brings life and immortality to light, but does not produce life (II Tim.1: 10).
"11. How then do you explain I Corinthians 1:21 and passages like it?
"The text says, "For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe."
"Please notice, that the one saved by the gospel is a believer, one who believes in God, one who has already been born again; he is not an alien sinner."(?)
And from: What Makes Primitive Baptist Churches 'Primitive'?
"They further claim that salvation is through God's grace alone, and that such human acts as repentance, baptism, hearing the gospel, or accepting Christ as one's personal Savior are "works" and have no part in salvation."
Correct me if I'm wrong.
Excerpts from the1644 LCF;
(what the 1644 LCF says about God, I-IV and "Touching the Lord Jesus", IX - XXII, His Offices as Mediator, to be Prophet, Priest, and King, in His Kingdom, is Glorious, btw).
VI.
"(John 17:3; Heb. 5:9; Jer. 23:5, 6) This therefore is life eternal, to know the only true God, and whom He has sent Jesus Christ (2 Thes. 1:8; John 3:36). And on the contrary, the Lord will render vengeance in flaming fire to them that know not God, and obey not the Gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.
VII.
"The rule of this knowledge, faith, and obedience, concerning the worship and service of God, and all other Christian duties, is not mans inventions, opinions, devices, laws, constitutions, or traditions unwritten whatsoever, but only the word of God contained in the Canonical Scriptures (John 5:39; 2 Tim. 3:15-17; Col. 21:18, 23; Mat. 15:9).
XXII.
"That faith is the (Eph. 2:8; John 6:29; 4:10; Phil. 1:29; Gal. 5:22) gift of God wrought in the hearts of the elect by the Spirit of God, whereby they come to see, know, and believe the truth of the (John 17:17; Heb. 4:11-12; John 6:63) Scriptures, and not only so, but the excellency of them above all other writing and things in the world, as they hold forth the glory of God in His attributes, the excellency of Christ in His nature and offices, and the power of the fullness of the Spirit in His workings and operations; and thereupon are enabled to cast the weight of their souls upon this truth thus believed.
XXIV.
"That faith is ordinarily (Rom. 10:17; 1 Cor. 1:21) begot by the preaching of the Gospel, or word of Christ, without respect to (Rom. 9:16) any power or capacity in the creature, but it is wholly (Rom. 2:1, 2; Ezek. 16:6; Rom 3:12) passive, being dead in sins and trespasses, does believe, and is converted by no less power (Rom. 1:16; Eph. 1:19; Col 2:12), then that which raised Christ from the dead.
XXV.
"That the tenders of the Gospel to the conversion of sinners (John 3:14, 15; 1:12; Isa. 55:1; John 7:37), is absolutely free, no way requiring, as absolutely necessary, any qualifications, preparations, terrors of the Law, or preceding ministry of the Law, but only and alone the naked soul, as a (1 Tim. 1:15; Rom. 4:5; 5:8) sinner and ungodly to receive Christ, as Christ, as crucified, dead, and buried, and risen again, being made (Acts 5:30-31; 2:36; 1 Cor. 1:22-24) a Prince and a Savior for such sinners.
XXVI.
"That the same power that converts to faith in Christ, the same power carries on the(1) soul still through all duties, temptations, conflicts, sufferings, and continually what ever a Christian is, he is by(2) grace, and by a constant renewed (3) operation from God, without which he cannot perform any duty to God, or undergo any temptations from Satan, the world, or men.
1) 1 Peter 1:5; 2 Cor. 12:9
2) 1 Cor. 15:10
3) Phil. 2:12, 13; John 15:5; Gal. 2:19-20
"Then, another axiom of contension may be that of 'Eternal Justification', some(?) Primitive Baptists hold, of which the 1644 LCF says is "applied in the manifestation of it through faith", and therefore is not eternal, in other words;
XXVIII.
"That those which have union with Christ, are justified from all their sins, past,(1) present, and to come, by the blood of Christ; which justification we conceive to be a gracious and free(2) acquittance of a guilty, sinful creature, from all sin by God, through the satisfaction that Christ has made by His death; and this applied in the manifestation of it through faith.
1) John 1:7; Heb 10:14; 9:26; 2 Cor. 5:19; Rom. 3:23
2) Acts 13:38, 39; Rom. 5:1; 3:25, 30."
I thought I had a lot more to say.
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10 but hath now been manifested by the appearing of our Saviour Christ Jesus, who abolished death, and brought life and immortality to light through the gospel, 2 Tim 1
The gospel does not impart eternal life, Jesus Christ did that. Those believing are already in possession of it. The gospel is the good news of what Christ has done.
Alan Gross
Well-Known Member
Yep, that's what your Belief pretty much says,
"4. We believe God unconditionally elected a definite number of the human family in Jesus Christ and ordained them to eternal life and glory before the foundation of the world. (Romans 8:29; Romans 9:11-13; Ephesians 1:4-6; 1 Thessalonians 1:4; Acts 13:48).
"5. We believe Jesus Christ suffered and died in the room and stead of His elect, and only His elect are justified in the sight of God by the imputed righteousness of Christ. (Acts 20:28; John 10:11; Hebrews 10:14; Romans 5:8-10).
"6. We believe that the Holy Spirit effectually calls, regenerates and sanctifies all the elect of God. (John 6:37; 2 Timothy 1:9; Jude 1)."
You leave everything to the Holy Spirit and we believe, our Savior Christ Jesus, "brought life and immortality to light through the gospel", like you quoted from 2 Tim 1.
So, as a Calvinist, aren't those things what you believe?
Why your slander and smears of the Old Baptists?
Alan Gross
Well-Known Member
I believe that God is Sovereign and that I am His servant.
I don't treat the Sovereign God of the Universe as my servant, Who reaps were He does not show, like in the parable of the Talents and of the pounds.
Those men were severely censored by The Lord.
Is that my smear?
The man who really believes God is Sovereign will be like Paul, who said, "So, as much as in me is, I am ready to preach the gospel to you that are at Rome also." Romans 1:15.
The Lord's Command is:
"And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature." Mark 16:15.
"How shall they call on Him in Whom they have not believed?
and how shall they believe in Him of Whom they have not heard?
and how shall they hear without a preacher?" Romans 10:13-14.
Hear what?
"O ye dry bones, hear the word of the Lord". Ezekiel 37:4.
Confessions aren't set in stone, but we will go with the 1644 LCF statement and scripture references,
in XXIV.
"That faith is ordinarily(1) begot by the preaching of the Gospel, or word of Christ, without respect to(2) any power or capacity in the creature, but it is wholly(3) passive, being dead in sins and trespasses, does believe, and is converted by no less power,(4) then that which raised Christ from the dead.
1) Rom. 10:17; 1 Cor. 1:21
2) Rom. 9:16
3) Rom. 2:1, 2; Ezek. 16:6; Rom 3:12
4) Rom. 1:16; Eph. 1:19; Col 2:12
"So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God." Romans 10:17,
"For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe." I Corinthians 1:21,
along with "Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures." James 1:18,
"For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek." Romans 1:16, etc.,
as being the method by which God brings Himself and His Son Glory, as well as, the Holy Spirit, Who has agreed to bear witness to the Word of God and when, at an Appointed Time in this life, the lost soul experiences His New Birth from above, in response and in conjunction with the preached Gospel.
The Divine mechanism for perpetuating His called out assemblies is to "make disciples", baptize them, and teach them all things whatsoever He has Commanded.
The verb is mathēteūo, ‘make disciples’.
The use of this verb in Acts 14:21 is closest to the use in the Great Commission: Paul and Barnabas visited Derbe, where they ‘preached the gospel and made many disciples’.
The preaching of the gospel is here the means to make disciples, corresponding to ‘baptizing’ and ‘teaching’ in the Great Commission.
We have been given the ministry of reconciliation.
To be a disciple is to be called to make new disciples.
This is the evident implication of the Great Commission in Matthew 28:19.
The disciples are told to make disciples.
The concept of ‘discipleship’ is a dynamic concept.
It implies multiplication.
When the disciples were sent to preach the gospel of the kingdom for Israel, they were not asked to make disciples.
But now this is included in their mission.
The word ‘disciple’ has got a new and a broader meaning than referring to those following their Master in Galilee and Judea.
All nations are invited to this new fellowship.
And therefore all disciples are called to this mission.
This corresponds to the words of Paul in 2 Corinthians 5:18, when he so closely connects the gift of being reconciled with God with the ministry of reconciliation.
"And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;"
Those who have received reconciliation are also Christ’s ambassadors, urging others to ‘be reconciled with God’.
How?
By preaching to them, "repent and believe the Gospel.
Being a disciple is to become the co-worker of Christ in his world-wide mission.
I don't know what to tell you.
II Thessalonians 2:13-15;
"But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:"
There is God's Sovereignty and the Work of the Holy Spirit using the Truth of the Gospel.
14 "Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.
There is God using the Gospel to call.
15 "Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle."
There is "hold the traditions", of our forefathers, in obeying the Sovereign Lord.
That is what I see from the Bible, our forefathers, and my instructors.
U?
"For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel." I Corinthians 4:15.
Mikey
Active Member
Hi Martin,
I know of a few Baptist Churches that are part of FIEC, rather than the Baptist Union. Is your church also part of any evangelical association like Evangelical Alliance or Affinity?
Almost every church in the FIEC is baptistic in practice, and about half call themselves Baptist. My church is affiliated to Affinity, but we don't have much to do with them. The E.A. is more active, but we have been a bit wary of them since churches we definitely don't consider to be evangelical are affiliated to them.
I take it that you are British. What sort of church do you belong to?
Are any of you familiar with the International Baptist Convention?
Mikey
Active Member
Yes i'm indeed British. My current church is a member of the Baptist Union of Scotland (BUS) (I'm from Scotland as you may have guessed) and the Evangelical Alliance. Every so often someone from the E.A. comes gives a talk or sermon and we receive their magazine. BUS i think helps with things like charity laws and helping a congregation find a new minister etc. but doesn't really have much influence on the general running of the church from what i see.
I only heard of Affinity after reading a brief history on the dispute between Martyn Lloyd-Jones and John Stott in the 60's. The book mentioned the British Evangelical Council (which i looked up and found it was renamed Affinity) generally sided with MLJ and members of the Evangelical Alliance generally sided more with John Stott.
Affinity is clearly much more Reformed than E.A., with E.A. being more of a broad evangelical (and maybe with some not so evangelical churches). Looking at the websites Affinity has a much more detailed Statement of Beliefs than both the Evangelical Alliance and the FIEC.
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