What the sin nature is not.

[JonC]

the human "nature" is prone to sin the moment we know "right from wrong". this is in our dna, which is the direct result of the fall of the human race in Adam.

Jesus Christ was "TESTED", as the Greek world also means, but, as the God-Man, could not have fallen, as this would be impossible. Jesus Christ is two "Natures", the Divine as eternally God, and the Human, at His Incarnation, though this is sinless. He is One Person, not two. When He was "tested" by the devil, it was the One Person Who was, and not the "human nature", only, as God-Man, it is impossible for Jesus to have ever fallen/failed. To "test" someone is with the expectation that they MIGHT fail, which is not a sin. It is only a sin when we do fail.

Jesus was "tempted in all ways as we are".

I do not think that it is good to get into the philosophical here because the point of that passage is to demonstrate that Jesus went through temptations "as common to man," and can therefore identify with us when we ate tempted.

I disagree that Jesus had two natures. I believe that the point of the Incarnation, the method of redemption, and the hope of our resurrection us dependent on Jesus having one nature (a solidarity with man....the Word be coming flesh). I am not sure, however, that this is a disagreement (reading your post you kinda hit on my point - Spirit-flesh, God-man).

But Jesus did nothing of His own accord. He relied on the Spirit, He submitted His will to the will of the Father. We are to be that way.

Was it impossible for Jesus to sin? Yes. Just as it is impossible for natural man to please God. It is not a matter of ability (Jesus had the power to come down from the cross) but a matter of the will.....of desiring the things of God over the things of the flesh.

 

[SavedByGrace]

Jesus was "tempted in all ways as we are".

I do not think that it is good to get into the philosophical here because the point of that passage is to demonstrate that Jesus went through temptations "as common to man," and can therefore identify with us when we ate tempted.

I disagree that Jesus had two natures. I believe that the point of the Incarnation, the method of redemption, and the hope of our resurrection us dependent on Jesus having one nature (a solidarity with man....the Word be coming flesh). I am not sure, however, that this is a disagreement (reading your post you kinda hit on my point - Spirit-flesh, God-man).

But Jesus did nothing of His own accord. He relied on the Spirit, He submitted His will to the will of the Father. We are to be that way.

Was it impossible for Jesus to sin? Yes. Just as it is impossible for natural man to please God. It is not a matter of ability (Jesus had the power to come down from the cross) but a matter of the will.....of desiring the things of God over the things of the flesh.

If you don't accept that Jesus Christ is two Natures fully God and fully Man except for sin. Then you believe in a false Jesus that is not taught in the Bible and guilty of rank heresy!

Philippians 2:5-8 is very clear that Jesus Christ the eternal God at His Incarnation took upon Himself the very nature of humans, while He remained Almighty God. The Greek grammar is very precise and clear on this

Monophysitism - New World Encyclopedia

 

[JonC]

If you don't accept that Jesus Christ is two Natures fully God and fully Man except for sin. Then you believe in a false Jesus that is not taught in the Bible and guilty of rank heresy!

Philippians 2:5-8 is very clear that Jesus Christ the eternal God at His Incarnation took upon Himself the very nature of humans, while He remained Almighty God. The Greek grammar is very precise and clear on this

Monophysitism - New World Encyclopedia

If you do believe Jesus is a human nature AND a divine nature you are guilty of heresy.

The point is that Jesus is not less than God in His Divinity, greater than man in His humanity, but these Natures are indivisable and without mixture (the "indivisable" abd "without mixture" part coming from the criteria historically establishing orthodox doctrine).

Jesus did not have two natures and He did not have an amalgamation of a human and divine nature. He is God/man. Fully God and fully man. Non-schizophrenic.

 

[SavedByGrace]

If you do believe Jesus is a human nature AND a divine nature you are guilty of heresy.

The point is that Jesus is not less than God in His Divinity, greater than man in His humanity, but these Natures are indivisable and without mixture (the "indivisable" abd "without mixture" part coming from the criteria historically establishing orthodox doctrine).

Jesus did not have two natures and He did not have an amalgamation of a human and divine nature. He is God/man. Fully God and fully man. Non-schizophrenic.

Philippians 2:5-8 completely destroys your unbiblical theology!

I am very surprised that you are a mod on the Baptist Board!

 

[SavedByGrace]

If you do believe Jesus is a human nature AND a divine nature you are guilty of heresy.

The point is that Jesus is not less than God in His Divinity, greater than man in His humanity, but these Natures are indivisable and without mixture (the "indivisable" abd "without mixture" part coming from the criteria historically establishing orthodox doctrine).

Jesus did not have two natures and He did not have an amalgamation of a human and divine nature. He is God/man. Fully God and fully man. Non-schizophrenic.

One Person, Two Natures | Ligonier Ministries

The Incarnation and Two Natures of Christ - The Gospel Coalition

 

[JD731]

If you do believe Jesus is a human nature AND a divine nature you are guilty of heresy.

The point is that Jesus is not less than God in His Divinity, greater than man in His humanity, but these Natures are indivisable and without mixture (the "indivisable" abd "without mixture" part coming from the criteria historically establishing orthodox doctrine).

Jesus did not have two natures and He did not have an amalgamation of a human and divine nature. He is God/man. Fully God and fully man. Non-schizophrenic.

Hi JonC, reading the conversation between you and SBG I conclude that you are no closer to being right than he is and I think both of you need to tweak your understanding about the nature of Jesus Christ. I think I understand it somewhat but am not ready to present it here because at times this is a mean place with mean spirited people. One must be able to present his case with reason and logic and most are intimidated with a post that is more than 10 or so words. Some people comment in a few words and one never knows what the point is.


I would direct your thinking to the cross where Jesus died as a substitute for sinners. There must be a way to separate the humanity of Jesus Christ from his divinity because God cannot die and someone who has God in them cannot die as sin. Sin is what originally separated God and man in the garden. Yet the scriptures tell us that Jesus died in the same manner that the first Adam died, first spiritually, and after that physically but he really died..

One must properly define death as God defines it to know the answer and few on these boards are willing to do that.

 

[37818]

If you do believe Jesus is a human nature AND a divine nature you are guilty of heresy.

What is that heresy?

 

[SavedByGrace]

Hi JonC, reading the conversation between you and SBG I conclude that you are no closer to being right than he is and I think both of you need to tweak your understanding about the nature of Jesus Christ. I think I understand it somewhat but am not ready to present it here because at times this is a mean place with mean spirited people. One must be able to present his case with reason and logic and most are intimidated with a post that is more than 10 or so words. Some people comment in a few words and one never knows what the point is.


I would direct your thinking to the cross where Jesus died as a substitute for sinners. There must be a way to separate the humanity of Jesus Christ from his divinity because God cannot die and someone who has God in them cannot die as sin. Sin is what originally separated God and man in the garden. Yet the scriptures tell us that Jesus died in the same manner that the first Adam died, first spiritually, and after that physically but he really died..

One must properly define death as God defines it to know the answer and few on these boards are willing to do that.

You say that I need to tweek my understanding about the 2 Natures in the One Person the Lord Jesus Christ

Can you show me from the Bible where what I have written is wrong

 

[SavedByGrace]

Hi JD731 #28 is actually addressed to you

 

[JonC]

Philippians 2:5-8 completely destroys your unbiblical theology!

I am very surprised that you are a mod on the Baptist Board!

You are pitting your interpretation of a verse against orthodox theology.

Your position is called Nestorianism. And yes, it is a heresy. But I am not sure that it is a heresy that would ban you from this Christian forum.

You reject the basic concept of what is called the hypostatic union.


Let me ask you, given that you have chosen to take a heretical view of Christ, do you believe the Doctrine of the Trinity is even remotely correct?

 

[SavedByGrace]

You are pitting your interpretation of a verse against orthodox theology.

Your position is called Nestorianism. And yes, it is a heresy. But I am not sure that it is a heresy that would ban you from this Christian forum.

You reject the basic concept of what is called the hypostatic union.


Let me ask you, given that you have chosen to take a heretical view of Christ, do you believe the Doctrine of the Trinity is even remotely correct?

What exactly are you on about?

IF you ever read my posts on here you should know my beliefs on the Trinity and Persons of Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit

Your continued posting against the 2 Natures in the One Person Jesus Christ, is blatant heresy!

It is obvious that you don't even understand the heresy of Nestorianism

 

[JonC]

Hi JonC, reading the conversation between you and SBG I conclude that you are no closer to being right than he is and I think both of you need to tweak your understanding about the nature of Jesus Christ. I think I understand it somewhat but am not ready to present it here because at times this is a mean place with mean spirited people. One must be able to present his case with reason and logic and most are intimidated with a post that is more than 10 or so words. Some people comment in a few words and one never knows what the point is.


I would direct your thinking to the cross where Jesus died as a substitute for sinners. There must be a way to separate the humanity of Jesus Christ from his divinity because God cannot die and someone who has God in them cannot die as sin. Sin is what originally separated God and man in the garden. Yet the scriptures tell us that Jesus died in the same manner that the first Adam died, first spiritually, and after that physically but he really died..

One must properly define death as God defines it to know the answer and few on these boards are willing to do that.

I disagree. The difference is that while @SavedByGrace believes an actual heresy (Nestorianism, that Jesus is essentially two persons in one, inseparable).



The orthodox Christian position is that the two natures are united so that they cannot be spoken of as mixed or separated.

One, for example, cannot speak of Jesus as doing one thing in His humanity or another in His divinity.


The point of the Incarnation is this solidarity between God and man. I believe that the Word became flesh. @SavedByGrace seems to prefer the idea that flesh was added to the Word.

 

[JonC]

What is that heresy?

Nestorianism.

The main difference I'm trying to point out is that Jesus is God/man - 100%God, 100%man

Not God and Man (100% God plus 100%man added as a second nature).

The Word actually became Flesh. God/man, two natures without mixture (not less than God, not more than man) but also not schizophrenically embodied. He is God/man.

We are also of two natures, but without possessing two natures. Saved, we have one nature but at the same time are a union of Spirit and flesh, born of the Spirit.

 

[SavedByGrace]

I disagree. The difference is that while @SavedByGrace believes an actual heresy (Nestorianism, that Jesus is essentially two persons in one, inseparable) at worst, or perhaps the dyophysitism doctrine of Orthodox Catholicism (two joined natures) at best (which is strange given the rest of his beliefs).



The orthodox Christian position is that the two natures are united so that they cannot be spoken of as mixed or separated.

One, for example, cannot speak of Jesus as doing one thing in His humanity or another in His divinity.


The point of the Incarnation is this solidarity between God and man. I believe that the Word became flesh. @SavedByGrace seems to prefer the idea that flesh was added to the Word.

Dude. You need to learn to read and understand the English language!

I have said MANY TIMES that Jesus Christ is ONE PERSON Who is TWO NATURES, God and Man!

Instesd of posting complete rubbish about what I actually believe. Try to read what I have written and then respond

Also I have said many times that Philippians 2:5-8 is exactly what I believe against your theology!

 

[SavedByGrace]

Nestorianism.

UTTER FALESEHOOD AND RUBBISH

 

[SavedByGrace]

Nestorianism.

The main difference I'm trying to point out is that Jesus is God/man - 100%God, 100%man

Not God and Man (100% God plus 100%man added as a second nature).

The Word actually became Flesh. God/man, two natures without mixture (not less than God, not more than man) but also not schizophrenically embodied. He is God/man.

We are also of two natures, but without possessing two natures. Saved, we have one nature but at the same time are a union of Spirit and flesh, born of the Spirit.

What are you saying here is UNBIBLICAL HERESY

 

[SavedByGrace]

Nestorianism.

The main difference I'm trying to point out is that Jesus is God/man - 100%God, 100%man

Not God and Man (100% God plus 100%man added as a second nature).

The Word actually became Flesh. God/man, two natures without mixture (not less than God, not more than man) but also not schizophrenically embodied. He is God/man.

We are also of two natures, but without possessing two natures. Saved, we have one nature but at the same time are a union of Spirit and flesh, born of the Spirit.

You need to apologise to me for falsely saying in public that I believe in Nestorianism

 

[JonC]

Dude. You need to learn to read and understand the English language!

I have said MANY TIMES that Jesus Christ is ONE PERSON Who is TWO NATURES, God and Man!

Instesd of posting complete rubbish about what I actually believe. Try to read what I have written and then respond

Also I have said many times that Philippians 2:5-8 is exactly what I believe against your theology!

You said that my belief that Jesus did not have two natures (a schizophrenic embodiment) or an amalgamation of natures, that He is fully God and fully man, was a heresy that should disqualified me from being a moderator.

No passage that you have posted contradicts what I posted about my position. If you believe otherwise you are foolishly illiterate.


Personally, I thought we agreed on this issue until you declared orthodox Christianity heresy.

So my response is based on both what you stated you believe (two natures) and what you called "heresy" (hypostatic union).

 

[37818]

Nestorianism.

The main difference I'm trying to point out is that Jesus is God/man - 100%God, 100%man

Not God and Man (100% God plus 100%man added as a second nature).

The Word actually became Flesh. God/man, two natures without mixture (not less than God, not more than man) but also not schizophrenically embodied. He is God/man.

We are also of two natures, but without possessing two natures. Saved, we have one nature but at the same time are a union of Spirit and flesh, born of the Spirit.

Jesus since His incarnation has had two natures. He is now both truly and fully a man and was always also truly and fully God, being always the Son of God being one Person distinct from the Person of the Father and Person of the Holy Spirit. They were always the one LORD God.

In His incarnation He changed how He was with God, not that He was God.

John 1:1-3, John 1:14.

 

[JonC]

You need to apologise to me for falsely saying in public that I believe in Nestorianism

Maybe, after clarification.....and once you apologize to me for calling me a heretic, that I shouldn't be on staff for holding a heresy, and compared my view to monophysitism (divine or human nature).