Was listening to WOTM radio and Todd said that it was about 1850 that people started using the sinners prayer and before this they did not. Is this true?
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What time did the sinners prayer come from?
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I don't know exactly when it started, but the shift seems to have occurred in the mid-19th century during the revivalistic era, so I suspect he is correct with his date. The modern "invitation" ceremony goes back to his era as well.
The sinner's prayer is a nice way to "seal the deal" if you think mental assent and public confession is the gospel. However, we see nothing like the sinner's prayer in the New Testament. I may be wrong, but I don't even recall a passage where anyone prayed a formal prayer at the beginning of their journey as a disciple. However I can think of a few passages where a person cried out to God in the moment of revelation which marked a turn toward Jesus (repentance and faith).
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Public confession and calling out to God are in fact part of what happens when we are saved.
13 But the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote his breast, saying, God, be thou merciful to me a sinner. Lu 18
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Repeat after me salvation has overrun many churches in all ranks. There are unregenerated preachers in high places, many with long pedigrees. Sir William from Graham is responsible for a lot of this problem.
Even so, come, Lord Jesus.
Bro. James
You're right. The problem is larger than repeating after me. He and many others have substituted faith with begging.
No longer simple conviction that in Christ alone we have eternal life, now we must add to that my effort of reaching to God. I'm expected to muster emotions which aren't stable, and make promises I can't keep. Reach out and take the gift. Make some human effort to access the grace of God.
But the scriptures declare that we access grace by faith, not doing. Not by asking, not by beggong, not by promising to turn over a new leaf. God doesn't need anybody's empty rhetoric because He already knows His own from the foundation of the world.
As for when this heinous cancer entered the church, around the time of the Mourner's Bench (used by Finney et al) in the most trash-centered evangelism ever
Some years ago I was speaking to a sister who told me there was no sinner prayer in her church while growing up. The preacher came and preached about once a month, (traveling preacher), and went away. When he came back if you had come to repentance and faith you went to him and requested baptism.
It is not often James that you have much value to contribute to this board. But with this post we can agree.
Does that mean we're buddies again?
While I agree with the Scriptures cited above, if what we are talking about is the sinners prayer as popularly spoken about, then the 1850s would be the time.
You need to work on your attitude and the way you speak to others.
Not sure how true it is, but I have heard D.L. Moody is credited with the tradition of the altar call. If that is true, then we might narrow down the popular tradition of the Sinner's Prayer to that time (20th century). I have visited and been a member of fellowships which date back to early centuries (17th and 18th) and many of them do not give altar calls, which from being a member of Independent and Southern Baptist fellowship...I thought was odd. As I thought about it, though, I concluded that a far better evidence of someone coming to faith is not necessarily just a response to an altar call, but the fact that they...keep coming.
Don't get me wrong, I am all for altar calls, and think it is a great tradition. But I can also see the value in simply letting people decide whether they will come back, and in truth become a member of the fellowship.
God bless.
I dunno, probably more than few drunks who have called out to God...
You may be on to something here. Drunkenness goes back quite a ways...
God bless.
I would say that you are incorrect.
Rom 10:9 because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
Rom 10:10 For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved.
Rom 10:10 For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved.
You do not understand the word believe and what it meant in the context. The word includes action and not just a mental assent as you believe. Many think that all you need to do is say a prayer and then live anyway you want after that to be included in the kingdom. This is false..
For more details on the word refer to the book "The gospel according to the Apostles" by MacArthur.
Interesting
How do you know what I believe about the word believe?
I have no idea who these people are. I have never met one but I can assure you it is not my position now nor has it eve been my position.
I don't care about your books. I have the ability to do my own study. Sooner or later you need to wean yourself off of gaining your theology from books and start learning how to do your own study.
Further, I bolded the words with regards to confession. You failed to respond to that. If you cannot address it (without going to one of your books) then we have nothing further to discuss.
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You seem to have a very low opinion of sound Biblical exegesis that Mac usually does when he writes something. Oh and we learn from teachers and I learn from the Holy Spirit who leads me to scripture, but it is by teachers that he uses.
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