What To Think About J.D. Greear?

[church mouse guy]

Where Greear is wrong about standing up for the rights of the LGBT, or the alphabet people, is that their rights have long been assured legally and that they themselves are the most effective at standing up for their own rights due to their strong political organizations and their immense wealth. Greear and Russell Moore are both irrelevant and they are making the SBC irrelevant. Greear is not making a legal case that the SBC has done something wrong on alphabet issues from a legal point of view that a team of lawyers could use to prosecute the SBC. Mayor Pete is running for POTUS & the candidate himself is not saying that he lacks any legal rights. Thus there is no problem and the legal system is perfectly capable of handling any criminality that might occur. Mayor Pete is a devout Episcopalian in good standing.... Greear cannot show any civil rights violations against the LGBT. The courts have ruled that The Salvation Army as a church denomination can hire people who agree with their doctrinal principles and exclude those who do not. Once Greear has finished his term as President of the SBC, he will lose influence. I myself do not understand how an SBC seminary could allow him to write a thesis about Allah being the same as the Christian God because the word Allah in Arabic means God just as the word Dios in Spanish means God or something like that? That thesis is so bad that Greear is not allowing anyone to read it online. Why doesn't Greear stand up for the rights of the LGBT to read his thesis?

 

[Jerome]

I myself do not understand how an SBC seminary could allow him to write a thesis about Allah being the same as the Christian God...thesis is so bad that Greear is not allowing anyone to read it online.

It was Southeastern Seminary, during the Patterson regime.
Yes, yes, who was Greear's dissertation supervisor? None other than Paige Patterson himself!

Greear, James D., Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary dissertation, "Theosis and Muslim evangelism: How the recovery of a patristic understanding of salvation can aid evangelical missionaries in the evangelization of Islamic peoples"

"This dissertation would not have been possible without the help of Dr. Paige Patterson..."

 

[Steven Yeadon]

Where Greear is wrong about standing up for the rights of the LGBT, or the alphabet people, is that their rights have long been assured legally and that they themselves are the most effective at standing up for their own rights due to their strong political organizations and their immense wealth. Greear and Russell Moore are both irrelevant and they are making the SBC irrelevant. Greear is not making a legal case that the SBC has done something wrong on alphabet issues from a legal point of view that a team of lawyers could use to prosecute the SBC. Mayor Pete is running for POTUS & the candidate himself is not saying that he lacks any legal rights. Thus there is no problem and the legal system is perfectly capable of handling any criminality that might occur. Mayor Pete is a devout Episcopalian in good standing.... Greear cannot show any civil rights violations against the LGBT. The courts have ruled that The Salvation Army as a church denomination can hire people who agree with their doctrinal principles and exclude those who do not. Once Greear has finished his term as President of the SBC, he will lose influence. I myself do not understand how an SBC seminary could allow him to write a thesis about Allah being the same as the Christian God because the word Allah in Arabic means God just as the word Dios in Spanish means God or something like that? That thesis is so bad that Greear is not allowing anyone to read it online. Why doesn't Greear stand up for the rights of the LGBT to read his thesis?

I see stuff like that online concerning Allah. That was J.D. Greear's thesis. Disgusting.

 

[church mouse guy]

It was Southeastern Seminary, during the Patterson regime.
Yes, yes, who was Greear's dissertation supervisor? None other than Paige Patterson himself!

Greear, James D., Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary dissertation, "Theosis and Muslim evangelism: How the recovery of a patristic understanding of salvation can aid evangelical missionaries in the evangelization of Islamic peoples"

Makes you wonder who is in charge, doesn't it? The rise and fall of Greear and the fall of Patterson.

Greear should let people read his thesis.

 

[Rob_BW]

Greear should let people read his thesis.

I wish it was readily available. I'm pretty sure it isn't 200 pages of saying Muslims and Christias worship the same God, as many like to claim. The title page shows that to be untrue.

I have a respect for any Christian who seeks to engage in apologetics in the work of evangelizing Muslims. That doesn't mean that their work is beyond critique, of course.

 

[church mouse guy]

I wish it was readily available. I'm pretty sure it isn't 200 pages of saying Muslims and Christias worship the same God, as many like to claim. The title page shows that to be untrue.

I have a respect for any Christian who seeks to engage in apologetics in the work of evangelizing Muslims. That doesn't mean that their work is beyond critique, of course.

I think that Greear said that Muslims worship the same God but in a different way. Crabtown used to make the same assertion.

 

[Rob_BW]

I think that Greear said that Muslims worship the same God but in a different way. Crabtown used to make the same assertion.

There's quite a few articles out there, and his book. He speaks of opening dialog (in person, face to face with Muslims, in teal life) and using their own assertion that they worship the God of Abraham as a jumping off point. I can't see how to fault him in that respect, unless we're ready to attack Paul for starting a speech by talking about worshipping an unknown god.

I see plenty of other issues with Greear. But his work on evangelizing Muslims doesn't strike me as one of them.

 

[church mouse guy]

There's quite a few articles out there, and his book. He speaks of opening dialog (in person, face to face with Muslims, in teal life) and using their own assertion that they worship the God of Abraham as a jumping off point. I can't see how to fault him in that respect, unless we're ready to attack Paul for starting a speech by talking about worshipping an unknown god.

I see plenty of other issues with Greear. But his work on evangelizing Muslims doesn't strike me as one of them.

J.D. Greear: This is a tough question that has a considerable amount of complexity to it. But at the end of the day, I think the question of whether or not you use the Arabic name for God – Allah – is more of a practical question than a theological one.

 

[Jerome]

I wish it was readily available. I'm pretty sure it isn't 200 pages of saying Muslims and Christias worship the same God, as many like to claim. The title page shows that to be untrue.

Part of it, incuding his introductory summary, is readily available online, theme is Theosis:

Greear, James D., Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary dissertation, "Theosis and Muslim evangelism: How the recovery of a patristic understanding of salvation can aid evangelical missionaries in the evangelization of Islamic peoples"

Greear:

"ABSTRACT
This dissertation suggests that the Patristic conceptualization of salvation as theosis (deification, divinization) can provide Evangelical missionaries with a paradigm useful for the explanation of the gospel to Muslims. Two major questions are addressed. The first concerns the nature of theosis itself and whether it is consistent with the Evangelical faith. The second is whether or not the doctrine of theosis more closely corresponds to the theological categories in Islam and felt needs among Muslims than does the prevailing Evangelical expression of salvation as a legal declaration of righteousness."

"the doctrine of theosis provides a good framework for communication of the gospel to Muslims....(1) The doctrine of theosis avoids the immediate Muslim objection to penal substitution by presenting Christ’s death and resurrection as victory, by answering questions raised by the problem of death, and by providing assurance based on the confidence that Christ is at work within. (2) The doctrine of theosis provides a framework for the biblical story, about which many Muslims are curious. (3) The doctrine of theosis provides a rationale for the deity and death of Christ. (4) The doctrine of theosis exalts the God-man as the worthy intercessor which Muslims seek. (5) The doctrine of theosis meets the Muslim need for cleansing from defilement so that they might stand before Allah. (6) The doctrine of theosis fulfills the Sufi desire for communion with Allah. (7) The doctrine of theosis offers Muslims an immediate deliverance from the threats of the demonic world."

 

[Jerome]

https://www.theopedia.com/theosis

"Theosis is the understanding that human beings can have real union with God, and so become like God to such a degree that we participate in the divine nature."

"Primarily a term found in Eastern Orthodox and Eastern theology, from the Greek meaning deification or making divine, theosis is a concept derived from the New Testament regarding the goal of our relationship with the Triune God. The terms theosis and deification may therefore be used interchangeably in this context."

"This does not imply that we become gods, but rather, that we are to become the fullness of the 'divine image' in which we were created (Gen. 1:26), i.e. a perfect reflection of our God, and become partakers of the divine nature (2 Pet.1:4)."

"It may be related to the Protestant concept of sanctification but goes further with what may be expected in this life, emphasizing the element of our mystical union with God in Christ. It may also be seen as something akin to the Wesleyan idea of 'entire sanctification'. However, Theosis remains a mystical concept not easily grasped and subject to various interpretations."

 

[Rob_BW]

J.D. Greear: This is a tough question that has a considerable amount of complexity to it. But at the end of the day, I think the question of whether or not you use the Arabic name for God – Allah – is more of a practical question than a theological one.

I didn’t think that semantics regarding a word for God were the main thrust of the objections leveled against him.

 

[Rob_BW]

Part of it, incuding his introductory summary, is readily available online, theme is Theosis:

Greear, James D., Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary dissertation, "Theosis and Muslim evangelism: How the recovery of a patristic understanding of salvation can aid evangelical missionaries in the evangelization of Islamic peoples"

Greear:

"ABSTRACT
This dissertation suggests that the Patristic conceptualization of salvation as theosis (deification, divinization) can provide Evangelical missionaries with a paradigm useful for the explanation of the gospel to Muslims. Two major questions are addressed. The first concerns the nature of theosis itself and whether it is consistent with the Evangelical faith. The second is whether or not the doctrine of theosis more closely corresponds to the theological categories in Islam and felt needs among Muslims than does the prevailing Evangelical expression of salvation as a legal declaration of righteousness."

"the doctrine of theosis provides a good framework for communication of the gospel to Muslims....(1) The doctrine of theosis avoids the immediate Muslim objection to penal substitution by presenting Christ’s death and resurrection as victory, by answering questions raised by the problem of death, and by providing assurance based on the confidence that Christ is at work within. (2) The doctrine of theosis provides a framework for the biblical story, about which many Muslims are curious. (3) The doctrine of theosis provides a rationale for the deity and death of Christ. (4) The doctrine of theosis exalts the God-man as the worthy intercessor which Muslims seek. (5) The doctrine of theosis meets the Muslim need for cleansing from defilement so that they might stand before Allah. (6) The doctrine of theosis fulfills the Sufi desire for communion with Allah. (7) The doctrine of theosis offers Muslims an immediate deliverance from the threats of the demonic world."

https://www.theopedia.com/theosis

"Theosis is the understanding that human beings can have real union with God, and so become like God to such a degree that we participate in the divine nature."

"Primarily a term found in Eastern Orthodox and Eastern theology, from the Greek meaning deification or making divine, theosis is a concept derived from the New Testament regarding the goal of our relationship with the Triune God. The terms theosis and deification may therefore be used interchangeably in this context."

"This does not imply that we become gods, but rather, that we are to become the fullness of the 'divine image' in which we were created (Gen. 1:26), i.e. a perfect reflection of our God, and become partakers of the divine nature (2 Pet.1:4)."

"It may be related to the Protestant concept of sanctification but goes further with what may be expected in this life, emphasizing the element of our mystical union with God in Christ. It may also be seen as something akin to the Wesleyan idea of 'entire sanctification'. However, Theosis remains a mystical concept not easily grasped and subject to various interpretations."

It's a very intersting topic, to be sure.

Neat timing, too. We started a study on Isaiah last night. The chaplain, an Anglican, talked in depth about chapter 6, and the need to he cleansed before communing with God, but also talked about how our attempts to articulate this must be on guard against sliding into an Eastern, pantheistic understanding.

 

[Jerome]

The controversy arose regarding a book he put out later:

THE GOSPEL COALITION • The Gospel Project's Trevin Wax interviews J.D. Greear, author of Breaking the Islam Code

Trevin Wax: It’s helpful to lay these misconceptions on the table and to talk honestly about our differences. You make the case that Muslims do worship the same God as Christians, although with obvious errors in understanding.

J.D. Greear: With Muslims, I would say that more often than not it is more helpful to use the Arabic name for God. They understand that to be the God of Adam, Abraham, Moses, David, and Jesus.

 

[Yeshua1]

J.D. Greear: This is a tough question that has a considerable amount of complexity to it. But at the end of the day, I think the question of whether or not you use the Arabic name for God – Allah – is more of a practical question than a theological one.

the Allah of islam denies Jesus is God, so that cannot be the very same Yahweh as the Father of Jesus Christ!

 

[Yeshua1]

It's a very intersting topic, to be sure.

Neat timing, too. We started a study on Isaiah last night. The chaplain, an Anglican, talked in depth about chapter 6, and the need to he cleansed before communing with God, but also talked about how our attempts to articulate this must be on guard against sliding into an Eastern, pantheistic understanding.

Or stop saying that Islam and Christianianity hold to same God under a different name, for Allah denies Jesus is Lord, and so that "God" is spirit of antichrist!

 

[Steven Yeadon]

The controversy arose regarding a book he put out later:

THE GOSPEL COALITION • The Gospel Project's Trevin Wax interviews J.D. Greear, author of Breaking the Islam Code



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You just slaughtered my opinion of Albert Mohler. I used to really like him, but he flirts with really bad ideas.

 

[Yeshua1]

You just slaughtered my opinion of Albert Mohler. I used to really like him, but he flirts with really bad ideas.

As with EVERY author not in the Bible, has both good and bad opinions!

 

[George Antonios]

I see this as broader problems of safeguarding the church against pop psychology masquerading as Christian theology, of preventing any hint of insidious charismatic influences in a time where the Pentecostal/Charismatics are becoming mainstream, and the general need to safeguard the SBC against cultural and theological drift to a Progressive understanding of things.

Again, I gave up the fight for the soul of the SBC. It may be best to schism at this point. I jumped ship to the IFB churches and feel wonderful.

J. Frank Norris gave up on them almost a century ago.

 

[Reynolds]

Makes you wonder who is in charge, doesn't it? The rise and fall of Greear and the fall of Patterson.

Greear should let people read his thesis.

More like the Conspiracy to destroy Patterson. I dont care for Patterson or his looney wife, but he was done wrong. Lies abound in the attempt to conceal the conspiracy.

 

[Reynolds]

Or stop saying that Islam and Christianianity hold to same God under a different name, for Allah denies Jesus is Lord, and so that "God" is spirit of antichrist!

Yes. It is indeed that simple. Its so simple, it takes a liberal like J.D. to misunderstand it.