T
TaterTot
Guest
The book is written from a Christian perspective, taught by Christian teachers in a Christian school. My whole point is that I think we are doing more harm than good by presenting such a legalistic view of sex.
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Any man could give a woman money, gifts, sexual pleasure, even a child.
But your fidelity is the one gift you can give her that no one else can, ever.
Any woman can cook for a man, iron his shirts, laugh at his jokes, and give him sexual pleasure.
But your fidelity is the one gift you ca give him that no one else can, ever.
True fidelity starts before marriage. It starts with the knowledge that there is going to be someone so special that you will have wanted to be the very best you can for this person. And it starts with teenage decisions regarding the kind of person you want to be morally, intellectually, spiritually -- and sexually.
An unfaithful marriage partner is probably the most painful thing that can happen in a marriage. And although the pain itself may, at some point, go away, the scar never does. That's experience talking...
Don't do that to your marriage partner, and don't set yourself up for it to be done to you by marrying someone who does not have the same strong feelings about this subject that you do.
If you are your partner's first, and he/she is your first, then you will never have to worry about the question "How do I compare?"
....more from that 'sex talk' that I remember giving.
But your fidelity is the one gift you can give her that no one else can, ever.
Any woman can cook for a man, iron his shirts, laugh at his jokes, and give him sexual pleasure.
But your fidelity is the one gift you ca give him that no one else can, ever.
True fidelity starts before marriage. It starts with the knowledge that there is going to be someone so special that you will have wanted to be the very best you can for this person. And it starts with teenage decisions regarding the kind of person you want to be morally, intellectually, spiritually -- and sexually.
An unfaithful marriage partner is probably the most painful thing that can happen in a marriage. And although the pain itself may, at some point, go away, the scar never does. That's experience talking...
Don't do that to your marriage partner, and don't set yourself up for it to be done to you by marrying someone who does not have the same strong feelings about this subject that you do.
If you are your partner's first, and he/she is your first, then you will never have to worry about the question "How do I compare?"
....more from that 'sex talk' that I remember giving.
abonmarche'
New Member
What are we teaching kids
Tater Tot: You are having trouble with this author named Mr. Pyle about a sensative subject involving sex. You listed 3 issues. 2 had scripture condoning a lust sin. The first issues was a general reflection of the authors point of view in mans 2007 world. Back to the WELL again. I feel this author sensetized you to such a point that we all are being sucked into a cistern. Jesus said to use his WELL, as well as I quoted in Psalms this fact. To get folks on this issue back and out of this cistern.. Turn to the Bible in 2 Samuel 13 and read all of it. Why? Sex and lust to such a young girl within the same house hold. Her name was Tamar, Daughter to King David. God shows us how to deal with sex and how man has always acted. God is the author of this event, how sad it was of inner family struggle and infestation of lucifer. Was that the purpose of these folks on earth at that time. NO. You read that Ammon was eventually killed by his other brother Absalom. Over what? Sex education? MY question is DID MR. Pyle the author show anyone the redeeming power of mans sin in his book over this subject, "What are we teaching our kids". Let God's word in the bible teach our kids. Oh by the way, did Mr. Pyle write about angels also sinning about this SEX book. Read Genesis 6, It tells you that the appointed angels over the man kicked out of the garden of eden to watch over them and sin by LUSTING over the humans having daughters and marrying them. OH!! What sin that was. Now even the angels of keepers of humans had sinned. By the way that is in verse 2. God sore? Yep! Vs 6 said it. I have run out of post space, bye
Tater Tot: You are having trouble with this author named Mr. Pyle about a sensative subject involving sex. You listed 3 issues. 2 had scripture condoning a lust sin. The first issues was a general reflection of the authors point of view in mans 2007 world. Back to the WELL again. I feel this author sensetized you to such a point that we all are being sucked into a cistern. Jesus said to use his WELL, as well as I quoted in Psalms this fact. To get folks on this issue back and out of this cistern.. Turn to the Bible in 2 Samuel 13 and read all of it. Why? Sex and lust to such a young girl within the same house hold. Her name was Tamar, Daughter to King David. God shows us how to deal with sex and how man has always acted. God is the author of this event, how sad it was of inner family struggle and infestation of lucifer. Was that the purpose of these folks on earth at that time. NO. You read that Ammon was eventually killed by his other brother Absalom. Over what? Sex education? MY question is DID MR. Pyle the author show anyone the redeeming power of mans sin in his book over this subject, "What are we teaching our kids". Let God's word in the bible teach our kids. Oh by the way, did Mr. Pyle write about angels also sinning about this SEX book. Read Genesis 6, It tells you that the appointed angels over the man kicked out of the garden of eden to watch over them and sin by LUSTING over the humans having daughters and marrying them. OH!! What sin that was. Now even the angels of keepers of humans had sinned. By the way that is in verse 2. God sore? Yep! Vs 6 said it. I have run out of post space, bye
PastorSBC1303
Active Member
Abon, I have absolutely no clue what you are saying in any of your posts.
May I suggest the use of the "enter" key on your computer?
May I suggest the use of the "enter" key on your computer?
T
TaterTot
Guest
abon,
thats my whole reason for the OP - there was no grace in the book. Thats why I am bothered. I want to teach young people godly principles about sex, but not to save themselves out of fear of God's wrath - because they love Him and want to honor Him. The Bible teaches that clearly, but I believe (and we allow) teenagers are getting the wrong legalistic messages about the gift of marital love.
Oh, and SBC... I believe he was addressing "me". lol Get a life dude :tongue3: :saint:
thats my whole reason for the OP - there was no grace in the book. Thats why I am bothered. I want to teach young people godly principles about sex, but not to save themselves out of fear of God's wrath - because they love Him and want to honor Him. The Bible teaches that clearly, but I believe (and we allow) teenagers are getting the wrong legalistic messages about the gift of marital love.
Oh, and SBC... I believe he was addressing "me". lol Get a life dude :tongue3: :saint:
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PastorSBC1303
Active Member
TaterTot said:
:saint: Yes ma'am
Trotter
<img src =/6412.jpg>
And, no Tater, I don't mind to butt in.
You have hit the nail squarely on the head. From what you've quoted, this book is trying to scare them into abstaining... which will not work. Oh, it might have before the Depression, and maybe during the early fifties. But today ain't neither one of them.
Kids today are smart... too smart for their own good. They are exposed to sexuality before they can even talk. Throughout their young lives they have seen a constant parade of this stuff called sex, and then, lo and behold, a book is going to try to shock them into denying what they have witnessed every day. It ain't gonna happen.
For starters, appealing to their love of and for God will only work if they are saved. Now, be honest... do you think every kid in a Christian school is saved? But that's what you've got to work with.
Every course on sex in a Christian enviroment should be so steeped in the gospel message that they can't ignore it. Outside of that salvation, they are just lost and fully controlled by their hormones (been there, done that). Even those who are Christians will have that battle... and many if not most of them are not rooted firmly enough to withstand the tempation.
I know, I make it sound bleak. It is. Our kids are going to tormant in a habdbasket as we stand by and say, "No, no... that's bad." Without a firm foundation, firm convictions, and firm faith, they are destined for major trouble in this area.
menageriekeeper
Active Member
Tater, I too think we have missed the mark on this one. In our church it's the "Christian" teens I worry about more than the ones from the outside. Kids coming into the youth group aren't the ones making out in the break room before the adults get there. No, the kids doing this are the ones who have gone to church all their lives!
The problem seems to be that no one wants to talk about sex and sexuality in anything more than general terms. We may point to Sue Ann and tell the kids if they have sex they are going to turn out like her, but we're not getting into the spiritual why of why Sue Ann's life is the way it is. (clue: it isn't about sex as much as it is about being separated from God)
Kids need adults who aren't afraid to talk to them plainly. MTV doesn't mind plain talk, why should we Christian mind it when it is we who hold the truth?
The problem seems to be that no one wants to talk about sex and sexuality in anything more than general terms. We may point to Sue Ann and tell the kids if they have sex they are going to turn out like her, but we're not getting into the spiritual why of why Sue Ann's life is the way it is. (clue: it isn't about sex as much as it is about being separated from God)
Kids need adults who aren't afraid to talk to them plainly. MTV doesn't mind plain talk, why should we Christian mind it when it is we who hold the truth?
TaterTot said:
I think I have to disagree.
You are right, but the book is, too. :saint:
Neither one of you is expressing a complete perspective. God's wrath is important to teach about and warn about. Romans 1 and many other passages give warnings about God's wrath against sexual immorality.
Loving Him and honoring Him is also important. His rules are for our best, not just arbitrary somehow.
Presenting just one is unbalanced, in my opinion.
T
TaterTot
Guest
I can agree with that too. But appealing to kids on the grounds of fear and "you are GOING to get caught' just isnt the best approach in my opinion.
I think it's important to paint the entire picture of God for all situations and that does include His anger when His children sin.
But the church is so busy warning against the wrath of God because of sexual deviancy, that the church has neglected to teach the beauty and holiness and pleasure of sexual relations within the confines of marriage.
The church has to preach against homosexuality, fornication, adultery, pornography, molestation, and all kinds of vile mockeries of sex that literally surround our us and our children. The consequences of immoral sexual behavior are constantly being discussed - STD's, girls being labeled as "bad", abortion, regretting immoral youth decisions when becoming an adult, and the break-up of marriages.
Our children have been immersed in a culture where sexual deviancy is the norm and righteous anger of the christian culture is the response. They need to know why God hates sexual deviancy and why the church preaches against it all of the time. They need to have a balance. They need to know the wonderful and Godly intent for the blessing of sexual relations in a marriage.
I can tell you, once girls are labeled as "bad" and never allowed by a family or a community for an opportunity for the love of God to cleanse them is a life-long punishment that should never be. And even when a family or community does forget, but has not forgiven, then not only is she burdened with feeling unclean, but has great difficulty in understanding why a man would ever love her if God doesn't love her.
And for young people to understand the wickedness of sex, when out of its Godly place, and for them to not understand the beauty of sex in its Godly place is a recipe for possible dysfunction.
But the church is so busy warning against the wrath of God because of sexual deviancy, that the church has neglected to teach the beauty and holiness and pleasure of sexual relations within the confines of marriage.
The church has to preach against homosexuality, fornication, adultery, pornography, molestation, and all kinds of vile mockeries of sex that literally surround our us and our children. The consequences of immoral sexual behavior are constantly being discussed - STD's, girls being labeled as "bad", abortion, regretting immoral youth decisions when becoming an adult, and the break-up of marriages.
Our children have been immersed in a culture where sexual deviancy is the norm and righteous anger of the christian culture is the response. They need to know why God hates sexual deviancy and why the church preaches against it all of the time. They need to have a balance. They need to know the wonderful and Godly intent for the blessing of sexual relations in a marriage.
I can tell you, once girls are labeled as "bad" and never allowed by a family or a community for an opportunity for the love of God to cleanse them is a life-long punishment that should never be. And even when a family or community does forget, but has not forgiven, then not only is she burdened with feeling unclean, but has great difficulty in understanding why a man would ever love her if God doesn't love her.
And for young people to understand the wickedness of sex, when out of its Godly place, and for them to not understand the beauty of sex in its Godly place is a recipe for possible dysfunction.
You know waht's interesting? We're at that point of Romans where it talks of God's wrath and this passage doesn't say that God's wrath is being poured out because of sexual immorality but that sexual immorality is a RESULT of God's wrath!!
18For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth. 19For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. 20For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse. 21For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22Claiming to be wise, they became fools, 23and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man and birds and animals and reptiles.
24Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves, 25because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever! Amen.
26For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature; 27and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error.
28And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a debased mind to do what ought not to be done. 29They were filled with all manner of unrighteousness, evil, covetousness, malice. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, maliciousness. They are gossips, 30slanderers, haters of God, insolent, haughty, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, 31foolish, faithless, heartless, ruthless. 32Though they know God's decree that those who practice such things deserve to die, they not only do them but give approval to those who practice them.
It is because of our NOT acknowledging God in sex - and His design that there are issues. When these kids understand not only the physical aspects of sex but the SPIRITUAL aspects - and have a true knowledge of who God is and His holiness, then we'll have HEARTS that are pure - not just physical virginity.
18For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth. 19For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. 20For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse. 21For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22Claiming to be wise, they became fools, 23and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man and birds and animals and reptiles.
24Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves, 25because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever! Amen.
26For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature; 27and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error.
28And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a debased mind to do what ought not to be done. 29They were filled with all manner of unrighteousness, evil, covetousness, malice. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, maliciousness. They are gossips, 30slanderers, haters of God, insolent, haughty, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, 31foolish, faithless, heartless, ruthless. 32Though they know God's decree that those who practice such things deserve to die, they not only do them but give approval to those who practice them.
It is because of our NOT acknowledging God in sex - and His design that there are issues. When these kids understand not only the physical aspects of sex but the SPIRITUAL aspects - and have a true knowledge of who God is and His holiness, then we'll have HEARTS that are pure - not just physical virginity.
If churches preached what the Bible taught they would have to be seen as preaching for or aginst anything but rather what God declares as holy and unholy.
If anyone has read the bok Right From Wrong by Josh McDowell they would easily see that a lot of sexual activity is happening among church youth. Don't find that very often among parachurch organizations like the Navigators because they are discipling people and have good activities for students.
If anyone has read the bok Right From Wrong by Josh McDowell they would easily see that a lot of sexual activity is happening among church youth. Don't find that very often among parachurch organizations like the Navigators because they are discipling people and have good activities for students.
PastorSBC1303
Active Member
gb93433 said:
I would love to know how you support this type of statement.
gb93433 said:
I've seen it plenty in Navigators, BSU, Campus Crusade, RUF, etc. You are on to something in that discipleship is key but you are way off to suggest that parachurch has some corner on the market of discipleship.
As this is my first post in this subject, I'll throw in a few pennies.
One problem I see in the teachings of the OP is that it often suggests that sex is very negative, leaving young kids to think "Why would I want to have sex?" As they get older, their bodies say otherwise, and they begin to suspect that sex might be enjoyable. Now they think what the Bible taught is a lie and out the window it goes. Think back to those church sex-talks you endured when you were younger. Was anyone else under the impression that the person giving the talk probably never had sex (concieving their children being a rare exception)?
I think young people need to see sex for what it is. The Bible has plenty to say of the positive side of sex (re: Song of Solomon). If that is understood, then it may be easier to explain boundaries.
Lagardo said:
I have been involved as a pastor and in a parachurch organization and what you say is true. Nobody has a corner on the market. The only corners is God's corner. Anyone who is discipling people are much less likey to get involved in heresy and sexual sin. James even writes that one who is not a doer of the word is deluded.
When you get a chance read http://www.bibleteacher.org/Dm118_8.htm
Trotter said:
When I taught high school I noticed that students listened to my advice when I told them the truth. We had some great discussions in class. Often the discussions would have made adults squirm. I know they appreciated having an adult stand up and tell them right from wrong. Kids need adults who will stand up and tell kids the truth in a nice way and give them reasons for what they believe. I tell students that are consequences for every decision. Good decisions produce good results. Poor decisions produce bad results. Kids listen when they know you are telling them the truth and not giving them some pat answer. I tell them that I never had sex with my wife before we were married and I am glad. I want to tell them that they do not have to yield to the lower road and why.
The fact is that many students talk a big game because others around them do. One time I asked a student about his weekend activity and he told me that he never had sex with a girl. However he talked as though he had many times because he would feel out of place with the rest of the guys in school.