What / who influences our decisions?

[webdog]

When changing a view theologically speaking...what / who influences our decisions? If 2 people are believers and hold to opposite theological views (calvinism vs. non calvinism) what is the influence? It can't be the Holy Spirit, because one is false, which leads to the Holy Spirit influencing us in both right and wrong doctrine.

 

[pinoybaptist]

When changing a view theologically speaking...what / who influences our decisions? If 2 people are believers and hold to opposite theological views (calvinism vs. non calvinism) what is the influence? It can't be the Holy Spirit, because one is false, which leads to the Holy Spirit influencing us in both right and wrong doctrine.

Which one is false ?

 

[webdog]

Are they both correct?

This is not the point of the thread, which one is right and which is wrong. Fact is they are both not right. What is the influence behind both, if both are beleivers?

 

[Scarlett O.]

I think all Christians have a little bit of wrong theology in them or even incomplete theology. I do not believe that there is or has been a Christian, living or dead, who knows it all nor has a 100% command of God's Word.

And there are Christians, bound for Heaven, who will die clinging to a false interpretation of some of the scripture and are unwilling and unyielding to hear otherwise. What then leads to our incorrect belief systems or our incomplete belief systems?

For myself, it could be a number of things.

• traditions of men
• having been taught incorrectly for years
• spiritual stubborness
• spiritual immaturity
• relying on another human being's interpretation and not the leading of the Holy Spirit

No one likes to admit that they have been deceived by any of the preceding. But we all have at some point in our Christian walk.

 

[webdog]

Thanks for those examples, Scarlett. They are good to build on.

Also, can / does satan have any influence in our understanding, even amongst two christians with opposing theological views? What about our sin nature?

 

[mcdirector]

I think our sin nature has to play a part to some extent -- stubborness if nothing else. Clinging to what we think/know is right without checking it out one more time. Without offering up one more prayer for understanding (or even obedience as a recent devotion reminded me of).

 

[webdog]

So the Holy Spirit cannot be claimed by either camp as an influence in why 2 believers believe differently? This is what I don't understand, how both sides can claim the Holy Spirit as their only influence why we beleive the way we do.

 

[mcdirector]

I am imperfect and the chance that I will make a mistake is great. I can tell you what I believe and show you the verses that I believe will back it up. Just because I have the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit, well, that doesn't mean I always read, see, interpret, and act correctly.

I have been known at times to listen to Bitsy (or some other influence) more than Him. That hurts to say, but it is true.

IMHO

 

[pinoybaptist]

Are they both correct?

This is not the point of the thread, which one is right and which is wrong. Fact is they are both not right. What is the influence behind both, if both are beleivers?

Excuse me, but you did not say "they are both not right". You said, "one is false".

So, I think before trying to figure out what the influence is behind this "jumping -to -the -other- side-of-the-fence", let us first confront your allegation that "one is false".

You also named the theological "views".

So, according to you, which one is false: Calvinism or non-Calvinism.

And if I might say so, since you are non-Calvinist, then this attempt at impartial discussion you are making is really self-serving.

Not that I am a Calvinist, I am not.
And if a Calvinist does the same self-serving (no sarcasm intended) attempts, he would still get the same treatment from me.

I will still back him to a corner with the question: which one is false.

I truly do not appreciate anyone calling the other false.

We are both redeemed in Christ, and our understanding of theologies may differ, but there is nobody in both sides of the fence who can truly be considered a teacher of falsities.

 

[mcdirector]

I was reading the original post was issuing some error to both sides.

I know I haven't been active in the debating, but I have been active in the reading and I've seen both grace and intolerance from both sides.

So webdog, I'll ask you straight out then, do you see that there could be room for error on any side or are you trying to call out the other side in error? Did you just use this as an example? Or did I get drawn into something that perhaps I should have stayed out of?

 

[webdog]

As I said...this is not about which is right and which is wrong. Start your own thread for that.

If you are not a calvinist, btw, you are a non calvinist. In regards to this (cal or non) there are only two sides. It's like I'm human, or I'm not.

 

[webdog]

I was reading the original post was issuing some error to both sides.

I know I haven't been active in the debating, but I have been active in the reading and I've seen both grace and intolerance from both sides.

So webdog, I'll ask you straight out then, do you see that there could be room for error on any side or are you trying to call out the other side in error? Did you just use this as an example? Or did I get drawn into something that perhaps I should have stayed out of?

There is room for error within both views...but both views (either calvinist or non calvinist) cannot both be right. Since I'm not a calvinist, I view the other as not being right.

 

[mcdirector]

There is room for error within both views...but both views (either calvinist or non calvinist) cannot both be right. Since I'm not a calvinist, I view the other as not being right.

Thanks for your clarification

 

[Alex Quackenbush]

When changing a view theologically speaking...what / who influences our decisions? If 2 people are believers and hold to opposite theological views (calvinism vs. non calvinism) what is the influence? It can't be the Holy Spirit, because one is false, which leads to the Holy Spirit influencing us in both right and wrong doctrine.

My response:

Think of a child since the Bible considers us children when we get saved and we are to grow with the milk of the Word and onto the meat.

When children learn something, often they learn it partially correct. They don't get it all right at once. Yet, they remain motivated and pursue mastery of something. Often they get to a point of success from which they cannot go any further because their capacity for learning and achieving has reached its maximum. Nevertheless they remain excellent contributors to whatever area of learning and skill they have mastered.

Now spiritually speaking it is NOT the same in that we can learn all our lives and their is no limit regarding the Spirit of God's illumination to us so long as we are receptive to being taught and exercise faith in the doctrines we have learned previously. Though it is true some seem to hit a point and stop, unlike human intellectual capacities, spiritual understanding does NOT have a stopping point. It only stops when we stop.

But to the earlier point about being a child. We are motivated by God's Spirit to His Word. The Spiritual impetus to feed and grow Spiritually is God in us who through His Holy Spirit illuminates us.

So like children we will not always have complete mastery of all things. Sometimes we will be wrong, yet in our pursuit of learnings God truth, though we are not fully illuminated and see some things incorrectly, we are STILL motivated by God's Spirit to learn.

So, are two believers who hold contrary doctrines motivated by the Holy Spirit? Well only God can answer that for each particular case but it is possible.

It could be otherwise also. Someone could simply be a stubborn mule but then God motivates even stubborn believers since in truth, we are all stubborn.

So I believe, yes, the Holy Spirit can be in the process of illuminated two people holding contrary theological views. However, He may also NOT be illuminating those two, each case is different.

 

[pinoybaptist]

There is room for error within both views...but both views (either calvinist or non calvinist) cannot both be right. Since I'm not a calvinist, I view the other as not being right.

Now that's better.
At least we know that you view the other one as false.

And, just for the record, I liked Mr. Quackenbush's answer. The majority of it, at least.

 

[russell55]

As I said...this is not about which is right and which is wrong. Start your own thread for that.

If you are not a calvinist, btw, you are a non calvinist. In regards to this (cal or non) there are only two sides. It's like I'm human, or I'm not.

Whatever in someone's theological system is true comes from the illumination of the Holy Spirit. Whatever isn't true comes from somewhere else. Untrue beliefs may come simply from ignorance. Perhaps the truth on that matter hasn't been taught to them yet. Or maybe the person clings to an untruth after being taught the truth out of pride or stubborness or some other sinful attitude.

Don't forget, too, that sanctification is a process. The Spirit works in different ways in different people and according to his own timetable. It would be easy enough, I suppose, for him to enlighten us all immediately to all the truth, but he doesn't work that way. We will all have some areas of untruth in our beliefs until the end.

 

[TCGreek]

1. Isn't wonderful to know that Heaven is all about knowing the Father and the Son through the indwelling Holy Spirit?

2. I have never once and will never, so help me, God, question(ed) the salvation of those who have called on the Same God, because we disagree theologically.

3. When we walk around in heaven, if you will, we will be seeing Christians who were of all stripes while on earth.

 

[Isaiah40:28]

Whatever in someone's theological system is true comes from the illumination of the Holy Spirit. Whatever isn't true comes from somewhere else. Untrue beliefs may come simply from ignorance. Perhaps the truth on that matter hasn't been taught to them yet. Or maybe the person clings to an untruth after being taught the truth out of pride or stubborness or some other sinful attitude.

Don't forget, too, that sanctification is a process. The Spirit works in different ways in different people and according to his own timetable. It would be easy enough, I suppose, for him to enlighten us all immediately to all the truth, but he doesn't work that way. We will all have some areas of untruth in our beliefs until the end.

I agree with this.