What would be differences between Reformed and Calvinist Baptists?

[Silverhair]

“Sin” is falling short or “missing the mark” of what God expects of human beings.

God does not “cause” sin. We sin because of our corrupted human nature causes us to sin.

If I tell someone “don’t put your hand in that fire, it will burn you”. When they decide to stick their hand in the fire, and are burned, that doesn’t mean I caused their hand to be burned.

I don’t need a lecture on theology from someone who believes many are saved having never heard the gospel.

Peace to you

@canadyjd you are so predictable.

Sin is falling short of the mark but under your calvinism, God is the one that causes man to fall short as He has determined all that will happen. By your theology man has no real free will just the calvinist determined free will which is no free will at all.

But even the illustration that you used points to free will.

Actually you do need a lecture on theology from one such as me as you do seem to have trusted in your calvinism way to much.

 

[canadyjd]

@canadyjd you are so predictable.

Sin is falling short of the mark but under your calvinism, God is the one that causes man to fall short as He has determined all that will happen. By your theology man has no real free will just the calvinist determined free will which is no free will at all.

But even the illustration that you used points to free will.

Actually you do need a lecture on theology from one such as me as you do seem to have trusted in your calvinism way to much.

You are partially correct concerning what I believe.

Man has no “free will” which implies a “neutral” state in which someone may chose actions without any influence at all, either good or bad.

Mankind has a human will that is enslaved to sin. Roman 6-7 is all about someone acting according to his sin nature. Sin is personified as a slave master controlling the person.

Oh, wait, my apologies. I forgot, you base your theology on what seems right in your own mind, regardless of scripture.

Peace to you

 

[Silverhair]

You are partially correct concerning what I believe.

Man has no “free will” which implies a “neutral” state in which someone may chose actions without any influence at all, either good or bad.

Mankind has a human will that is enslaved to sin. Roman 6-7 is all about someone acting according to his sin nature. Sin is personified as a slave master controlling the person.

Oh, wait, my apologies. I forgot, you base your theology on what seems right in your own mind, regardless of scripture.

Peace to you

As I said you are so predictable.

If man has no free will then he is not responsible for anything that he does as his will must be controlled by some outside force. Even what you call his sin nature must have been given to him as he could not choose to have it could he. So since the only outside force is God then by following your view that would make God the author of all the sin that the man commits.

But the bible is clear that man is morally responsible for his actions as I am sure you would agree.

God sovereignly decreed that man should be free to exercise moral choice, and man from the beginning has fulfilled that decree by making his choice between good and evil. A.W. Tozer

If you can’t think, act, feel in any way other than what God has already decreed for you to think, act, and feel, then to speak of moral responsibility or human will is ludicrous.

Free will is closely linked to the concepts of moral responsibility, praise, guilt, sin, and other judgments which apply only to actions that are freely chosen.

Ezekiel 18:4-32 contains some of the most thorough, carefully expressed, and absolutely clear discourses on the topic of the responsibility of the individual for his or her own sins found anywhere in the Bible.

So as you see my theology is based on scripture unlike yours which seem to be based on man-made philosophy.

 

[canadyjd]

As I said you are so predictable.

If man has no free will then he is not responsible for anything that he does as his will must be controlled by some outside force. Even what you call his sin nature must have been given to him as he could not choose to have it could he. So since the only outside force is God then by following your view that would make God the author of all the sin that the man commits.

But the bible is clear that man is morally responsible for his actions as I am sure you would agree.

God sovereignly decreed that man should be free to exercise moral choice, and man from the beginning has fulfilled that decree by making his choice between good and evil. A.W. Tozer

If you can’t think, act, feel in any way other than what God has already decreed for you to think, act, and feel, then to speak of moral responsibility or human will is ludicrous.

Free will is closely linked to the concepts of moral responsibility, praise, guilt, sin, and other judgments which apply only to actions that are freely chosen.

Ezekiel 18:4-32 contains some of the most thorough, carefully expressed, and absolutely clear discourses on the topic of the responsibility of the individual for his or her own sins found anywhere in the Bible.

So as you see my theology is based on scripture unlike yours which seem to be based on man-made philosophy.

I understand your argument. It is without biblical foundation. Scripture very clearly states human beings are enslaved to sin and act according to the desires of their corrupted sin nature.

Mankind has a will enslaved to sin AND is responsible for every action, thought, inaction, word out of his mouth. Without God intervening in his life, he has no desire for truth of God.

It only seems unfair when you hold God to your own human standards of morality instead of what scripture actually teaches.

And, once again you are correct. I am predictable. I will ALWAYS base what I believe on what scripture teaches.

You are also predictable. You will ALWAYS base what you believe on man made philosophy while ignoring the truth of God’s Word.

Peace to you

 

[Silverhair]

I understand your argument. It is without biblical foundation. Scripture very clearly states human beings are enslaved to sin and act according to the desires of their corrupted sin nature.

Mankind has a will enslaved to sin AND is responsible for every action, thought, inaction, word out of his mouth. Without God intervening in his life, he has no desire for truth of God.

It only seems unfair when you hold God to your own human standards of morality instead of what scripture actually teaches.

And, once again you are correct. I am predictable. I will ALWAYS base what I believe on what scripture teaches.

You are also predictable. You will ALWAYS base what you believe on man made philosophy while ignoring the truth of God’s Word.

Peace to you

Your first statement shows that you do not actually base what you believe on scripture. If you did then you would not deny what the bible shows us regarding our moral behavior. Ezekiel 18:4-32 has shown that man is morally responsible and God expects man to use his free will to make real choices and yet you deny this possibility.

We see this again in the NT when we read of the jailer in Acts. Acts of the Apostles 16:30-31 and you deny this also.

You said man is "responsible for every action, thought, inaction, word out of his mouth" those all require a free will.

Morality requires a free will and yet you deny man has a free will. The ability to make the choice to trust or reject God also requires a free will.

Rom 10:9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.

Rom 10:13 For "whoever calls on the name of the LORD shall be saved."

If one does not confess, believe, call they will not be saved. All those actions require the ability to make a choice.

You cherry pick a verse and hang your whole theology on it while denying what the Holy Spirit has said.

 

[JesusFan]

To be Reformed Baptist is more than the five solas and five points of Calvinism.

Yes, also includes holding to some Confession of faith, and to Covenant Theology

 

[canadyjd]

Your first statement shows that you do not actually base what you believe on scripture. If you did then you would not deny what the bible shows us regarding our moral behavior. Ezekiel 18:4-32 has shown that man is morally responsible and God expects man to use his free will to make real choices and yet you deny this possibility.

We see this again in the NT when we read of the jailer in Acts. Acts of the Apostles 16:30-31 and you deny this also.

You said man is "responsible for every action, thought, inaction, word out of his mouth" those all require a free will.

Morality requires a free will and yet you deny man has a free will. The ability to make the choice to trust or reject God also requires a free will.

Rom 10:9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.

Rom 10:13 For "whoever calls on the name of the LORD shall be saved."

If one does not confess, believe, call they will not be saved. All those actions require the ability to make a choice.

You cherry pick a verse and hang your whole theology on it while denying what the Holy Spirit has said.

You continue to demonstrate a lack of understanding of scripture. Ezekiel repeats God’s commands to follow His statutes and laws. If they can keep them, they will not be condemned.

But no man can keep them perfectly except Christ our King. That is why we are saved by God’s grace, not works.

BTW, Ezekiel 18 never uses the phrase “free will”. That comes from your man made philosophy.

Peace to you

 

[JesusFan]

I understand your argument. It is without biblical foundation. Scripture very clearly states human beings are enslaved to sin and act according to the desires of their corrupted sin nature.

Mankind has a will enslaved to sin AND is responsible for every action, thought, inaction, word out of his mouth. Without God intervening in his life, he has no desire for truth of God.

It only seems unfair when you hold God to your own human standards of morality instead of what scripture actually teaches.

And, once again you are correct. I am predictable. I will ALWAYS base what I believe on what scripture teaches.

You are also predictable. You will ALWAYS base what you believe on man made philosophy while ignoring the truth of God’s Word.

Peace to you

As Paul stated, holding to vain philosophies of men

 

[Silverhair]

You continue to demonstrate a lack of understanding of scripture. Ezekiel repeats God’s commands to follow His statutes and laws. If they can keep them, they will not be condemned.

But no man can keep them perfectly except Christ our King. That is why we are saved by God’s grace, not works.

BTW, Ezekiel 18 never uses the phrase “free will”. That comes from your man made philosophy.

Peace to you

What do you not understand about what you wrote? " Ezekiel repeats God’s commands to follow His statutes and laws. If they can keep them, they will not be condemned." So either they have the free will with which to choose to keep the commands. Or in the deterministic view you hold they are forced by God to either keep them and live or reject them and die.

I understand this is a hard concept for you to grasp but free will is right there in front of you.
Eze 18:26 "When a righteous man turns away from his righteousness, ... he will die.
Eze 18:27 "Again, when a wicked man turns away from his wickedness ...he will save his life.
Eze 18:28 "Because he considered and turned away from all his transgressions which he had committed, he shall surely live; he shall not die.

The life or death of the people depended on their individual responses to God. Those who continued to rebel would die; those who repented and turned from sin would live.

BTW that is a rather lame argument re the words "free will". But it seems to be the best argument you can come up with.

 

[canadyjd]

All done

Peace to you

 

[JesusFan]

What do you not understand about what you wrote? " Ezekiel repeats God’s commands to follow His statutes and laws. If they can keep them, they will not be condemned." So either they have the free will with which to choose to keep the commands. Or in the deterministic view you hold they are forced by God to either keep them and live or reject them and die.

I understand this is a hard concept for you to grasp but free will is right there in front of you.
Eze 18:26 "When a righteous man turns away from his righteousness, ... he will die.
Eze 18:27 "Again, when a wicked man turns away from his wickedness ...he will save his life.
Eze 18:28 "Because he considered and turned away from all his transgressions which he had committed, he shall surely live; he shall not die.

The life or death of the people depended on their individual responses to God. Those who continued to rebel would die; those who repented and turned from sin would live.

BTW that is a rather lame argument re the words "free will". But it seems to be the best argument you can come up with.

Peter and Isaiah state to us none seek after God, all are lost sheep gone astray, were they wrong?

 

[Silverhair]

Peter and Isaiah state to us none seek after God, all are lost sheep gone astray, were they wrong?

We are all lost sheep but being lost does not mean they cannot find their way home again does it.

No one continuously seeks God but we are also told in both the OT & NT that we can seek God and that He is the rewarder of those that do.

Ezr_8:22 ..."The hand of our God is upon all those for good who seek Him, but His power and His wrath are against all those who forsake Him."

Job_5:8 "But as for me, I would seek God, And to God I would commit my cause;

Job_8:5 If you would earnestly seek God And make your supplication to the Almighty,

Psa_69:32 The humble shall see this and be glad; And you who seek God, your hearts shall live

Act_17:27 that they would seek God, if perhaps they might grope for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us;

Heb_11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him.

 

[JesusFan]

We are all lost sheep but being lost does not mean they cannot find their way home again does it.

No one continuously seeks God but we are also told in both the OT & NT that we can seek God and that He is the rewarder of those that do.

Ezr_8:22 ..."The hand of our God is upon all those for good who seek Him, but His power and His wrath are against all those who forsake Him."

Job_5:8 "But as for me, I would seek God, And to God I would commit my cause;

Job_8:5 If you would earnestly seek God And make your supplication to the Almighty,

Psa_69:32 The humble shall see this and be glad; And you who seek God, your hearts shall live

Act_17:27 that they would seek God, if perhaps they might grope for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us;

Heb_11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him.

Who are the 'they and we" being addressed here though, are they not His own sheep, and not the goats?

 

[Silverhair]

Who are the 'they and we" being addressed here though, are they not His own sheep, and not the goats?

The nation of Israel were God's sheep but not in a salvation view. The only goats we see in the OT were used for sacrifices. And in the NT we see them used again for sacrifices and as a reference of those that have freely rejected salvation through faith in Christ.

You seem to think that these positions were already decided before hand. But scripture does not support your view.

Are you suggesting that God does not want all to come to repentance?

Are you saying that some are excluded from the start from any possibility of salvation?

Where do you see your sheep and goats in those verses?