What would qualify as being heretical doctrines?

[Martin Marprelate]

If one aspired to be an expert on counterfeit currency, the first stage would not be to study hundreds of fake banknotes, but to know really well what a good one looks like.

In the same way, I think the most important thing that Bible-believing Christians should do is not so much to keep inveighing against false doctrine (though I'm sure there is a place for that), but to concentrate on preaching the true. This is Paul's advice in Ephesians 4:11-16 & 2 Timothy 4:1-5. If Christians get to know true doctrines really well, they won't fall for phoney teaching

 

[Yeshua1]

Why not? We should be bringing the lost to the table. That they can experience the only enlightenment that can save.


God bless.

We should have the group renamed non christian churches

 

[Yeshua1]

If one aspired to be an expert on counterfeit currency, the first stage would not be to study hundreds of fake banknotes, but to know really well what a good one looks like.

In the same way, I think the most important thing that Bible-believing Christians should do is not so much to keep inveighing against false doctrine (though I'm sure there is a place for that), but to concentrate on preaching the true. This is Paul's advice in Ephesians 4:11-16 & 2 Timothy 4:1-5. If Christians get to know true doctrines really well, they won't fall for phoney teaching

What is interesting to me is that some would keep on trying to see Rome and the Sda as being real christian churches in doctrines/teachings, as just another denomination branch, but they teach another gospel...

 

[Yeshua1]

I will no longer respond to your posts unless you first address the point made and secondly, that you post Scripture to support the charges, assertions, and points you are trying to make.


God bless.

Would you agree that the theology that Rome and Sda holds to are the ones that I have posted them to be?

 

[Bro. James]

The problem lies in: Who has the authority to decide that which is Orthodox?

To believe that Rome ever had divine authority is a fatal error resulting in the confusion which permeates Christendom.. God does not author confusion.

Rome and the primacy of Peter is either true or false. If true all should bow to Rome. She has delegated authority to no one. If false, Rome is a usurper. Those coming out of her have no authority since Rome has none. This is the dilemma: most of so-called Christendom came out of Rome. They have a lot of religious clout in high places. They cannot reject the baptism of Rome without negating their own baptisms

Come latelies, Smith,Rutherford, White, Eddy, etc. etc. know not what orthodox might be either--all can be shown to be false prophets. This is a sizeable group of religious folk too.

"Fear not little flock, it is your Father's good pleasure to give you the kingdom." "I will never leave you or forsake you." The Lord knows them that are His.

Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

Bro. James

 

[FollowTheWay]

I would call it apostasy, as the Roman Church declared as being wrong the very Gospel that alone can save!
Its not Lordship salvation, its salvation coming thru sacraments. and one merits/earning the favor of God!

Read the statement about salvation included in the 1833 New Hampshire Confession:


11. Of the Perseverance of Saints
We believe that such only are real believers as endure unto the end John 8:31; 1 John 2:27-28; 3:9; 5:18; that their persevering attachment to Christ is the grand mark which distinguishes them from superficial professors 1 John 2:19; John 13:18; Matt. 13:20-21; John 6:66-69; Job 17:9;

The same statement was included in the 1925 Baptist Faith and Message, the SBC statement of faith.

11. PERSEVERANCE
All real believers endure to the end. Their continuance in well-doing is the mark which distinguishes them from mere professors. A special Providence cares for them, and they are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation.

There was a major discussion about this during the updating of the BF&M in 1963. The Committee, led by Herschel Hobbs, removed the statement while initiating the NEW doctrine of Eternal Security. Dale Moody argued strenuously against it. Most Christian denominations do not accept this doctrine and neither do the American Baptists. The American baptist Church I was a member of in NJ still incorporates enduring to the end in their statement of faith. I do not accept this doctrine personally and think of it as introducing "cheap grace" or "easy-believerism" into the SBC faith.

 

[Darrell C]

If one aspired to be an expert on counterfeit currency, the first stage would not be to study hundreds of fake banknotes, but to know really well what a good one looks like.

In the same way, I think the most important thing that Bible-believing Christians should do is not so much to keep inveighing against false doctrine (though I'm sure there is a place for that), but to concentrate on preaching the true. This is Paul's advice in Ephesians 4:11-16 & 2 Timothy 4:1-5. If Christians get to know true doctrines really well, they won't fall for phoney teaching

Agreed, though I would see our study of Truth as preparation for those times we are confronted with error.

There was a man who dealt with identifying counterfeit money, and when asked whether he spent a lot of time in study of counterfeit money replied, "No, I spend all my time studying genuine money.


God bless.

 

[Darrell C]

Read the statement about salvation included in the 1833 New Hampshire Confession:


11. Of the Perseverance of Saints
We believe that such only are real believers as endure unto the end John 8:31; 1 John 2:27-28; 3:9; 5:18; that their persevering attachment to Christ is the grand mark which distinguishes them from superficial professors 1 John 2:19; John 13:18; Matt. 13:20-21; John 6:66-69; Job 17:9;

The same statement was included in the 1925 Baptist Faith and Message, the SBC statement of faith.

11. PERSEVERANCE
All real believers endure to the end. Their continuance in well-doing is the mark which distinguishes them from mere professors. A special Providence cares for them, and they are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation.

There was a major discussion about this during the updating of the BF&M in 1963. The Committee, led by Herschel Hobbs, removed the statement while initiating the NEW doctrine of Eternal Security. Dale Moody argued strenuously against it. Most Christian denominations do not accept this doctrine and neither do the American Baptists. The American baptist Church I was a member of in NJ still incorporates enduring to the end in their statement of faith. I do not accept this doctrine personally and think of it as introducing "cheap grace" or "easy-believerism" into the SBC faith.

So you reject Eternal Security?


God bless.

 

[agedman]

Read the statement about salvation included in the 1833 New Hampshire Confession:


11. Of the Perseverance of Saints
We believe that such only are real believers as endure unto the end John 8:31; 1 John 2:27-28; 3:9; 5:18; that their persevering attachment to Christ is the grand mark which distinguishes them from superficial professors 1 John 2:19; John 13:18; Matt. 13:20-21; John 6:66-69; Job 17:9;

The same statement was included in the 1925 Baptist Faith and Message, the SBC statement of faith.

11. PERSEVERANCE
All real believers endure to the end. Their continuance in well-doing is the mark which distinguishes them from mere professors. A special Providence cares for them, and they are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation.

There was a major discussion about this during the updating of the BF&M in 1963. The Committee, led by Herschel Hobbs, removed the statement while initiating the NEW doctrine of Eternal Security. Dale Moody argued strenuously against it. Most Christian denominations do not accept this doctrine and neither do the American Baptists. The American baptist Church I was a member of in NJ still incorporates enduring to the end in their statement of faith. I do not accept this doctrine personally and think of it as introducing "cheap grace" or "easy-believerism" into the SBC faith.

I have (as I recall) read this, somewhere.

OSAS has in fact been abused by the typical Baptists church. My own home church (one I attended as a child and teen) had an unwritten rule that at the age of 12 a person needed to walk the isle, be baptized, and that meant one was saved. This is also when a great effort was made to present salvation was endowed when one joined the church (sort of like some corporate salvation I have heard).

Although I do hold to the basic OSAS truth, it never the less resolves to that matter of perseverance as the indication that salvation is factual in a person's life.

For how can one truly be saved if they have no perseverance in the face of persecution?

 

[FollowTheWay]

So you reject Eternal Security?


God bless.

Yes. When I was growing up in an SBC church this was preached on one Sunday. My mother, whom I consider to be one of the strongest Christians I've ever known, turned to me and my brother and said: "This wasn't what I was taught in the FBC of Danville, Ky." My grandfather didn't have much formal education (quit school after the 4th grade to work on the farm) but was one of the wisest men I've encountered. He was Chairman of the Deacons at the FBC. He stood firm on his faith and taught it to his daughters. I have the Sunday School Teacher guide first written in 1913 by the SB Sunday School Board to make certain teachers were firmly grounded in the faith. It doesn't mention Eternal Security but focuses on enduring to the end.

"What Baptists Believe" by O.C.S. Wallace, 1934 copyright

Speaking about spurious or false believers it says:
"They are not "new creatures." They do not persevere in the way of life because they have never entered it." "There is a great difference between the righteous and the wicked and that this difference tends to express itself in countenance, word and deed."

We're not talking here about salvation by works. Salvation is by Grace through Faith freely given. I'm talking about Justification and Sanctification. Someone who has a genuine born-again experience will show evidence of that in their lives. "There is a difference in desire: one would do God's will; the other would do his own will."

[Mat 7:18-20 NKJV] 18 "A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor [can] a bad tree bear good fruit. 19 "Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 "Therefore by their fruits you will know them.

 

[FollowTheWay]

I have (as I recall) read this, somewhere.

OSAS has in fact been abused by the typical Baptists church. My own home church (one I attended as a child and teen) had an unwritten rule that at the age of 12 a person needed to walk the isle, be baptized, and that meant one was saved. This is also when a great effort was made to present salvation was endowed when one joined the church (sort of like some corporate salvation I have heard).

Although I do hold to the basic OSAS truth, it never the less resolves to that matter of perseverance as the indication that salvation is factual in a person's life.

For how can one truly be saved if they have no perseverance in the face of persecution?

Many of the early Christians (The Way) were given two choices: 1. Worship Caesar and live, or 2. Worship Jesus and die. Overwhelmingly they chose to die.

 

[Yeshua1]

Read the statement about salvation included in the 1833 New Hampshire Confession:


11. Of the Perseverance of Saints
We believe that such only are real believers as endure unto the end John 8:31; 1 John 2:27-28; 3:9; 5:18; that their persevering attachment to Christ is the grand mark which distinguishes them from superficial professors 1 John 2:19; John 13:18; Matt. 13:20-21; John 6:66-69; Job 17:9;

The same statement was included in the 1925 Baptist Faith and Message, the SBC statement of faith.

11. PERSEVERANCE
All real believers endure to the end. Their continuance in well-doing is the mark which distinguishes them from mere professors. A special Providence cares for them, and they are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation.

There was a major discussion about this during the updating of the BF&M in 1963. The Committee, led by Herschel Hobbs, removed the statement while initiating the NEW doctrine of Eternal Security. Dale Moody argued strenuously against it. Most Christian denominations do not accept this doctrine and neither do the American Baptists. The American baptist Church I was a member of in NJ still incorporates enduring to the end in their statement of faith. I do not accept this doctrine personally and think of it as introducing "cheap grace" or "easy-believerism" into the SBC faith.

Or moving from being calvinistic bent more towards free will salvation!

 

[Yeshua1]

How would you understand Jesus referring to NONE that he saves will ever be lost again, that he will rise up all those who are saved than?

 

[agedman]

Or moving from being calvinistic bent more towards free will salvation!

YES!

This is the very heart of much of the confusion present in the church. A cancerous growth that was not benign and at times is so ugly that it becomes a distraction and hinderance to fellowship.

The "free will" is not just a "bent towards" but is a blight, a whole sale petrification of the truth of Scriptures pushed upon the right thinking believers with all manner of deceitful cunning.

There, did I vent enough?

 

[Yeshua1]

YES!

This is the very heart of much of the confusion present in the church. A cancerous growth that was not benign and at times is so ugly that it becomes a distraction and hinderance to fellowship.

The "free will" is not just a "bent towards" but is a blight, a whole sale petrification of the truth of Scriptures pushed upon the right thinking believers with all manner of deceitful cunning.

There, did I vent enough?

Think just heard John Calvin say a hearty "Amen"