What would you consider a Degree Mill?

[McCree79]

Again... you're not getting it. A Th.M. is a recognized post grad degree. That means post masters degree. But Slidell will just sling one at you after a bachelors degree... 30 credits after a bachelors degree??????????? For me, it was after 90 masters & PhD level credits before starting the ThM.

And then you are going to talk about the lectures and exams??? I don't know the lecturers nor the tests. This is where accreditation is helpful. The lecturers could be jokes along with the tests. Accreditation is quality control. And I know these degrees are research degrees. You don't take tests. I didn't take one test for my ThM. But I had to write publishable research papers typically around 30 pages. Then there was the thesis... which there is not at Slidell.

So yes! Degree Mill!!!

How many papers did you have to write like that?

 

[McCree79]

Again... you're not getting it. A Th.M. is a recognized post grad degree. That means post masters degree. But Slidell will just sling one at you after a bachelors degree... 30 credits after a bachelors degree??????????? For me, it was after 90 masters & PhD level credits before starting the ThM.

And then you are going to talk about the lectures and exams??? I don't know the lecturers nor the tests. This is where accreditation is helpful. The lecturers could be jokes along with the tests. Accreditation is quality control. And I know these degrees are research degrees. You don't take tests. I didn't take one test for my ThM. But I had to write publishable research papers typically around 30 pages. Then there was the thesis... which there is not at Slidell.

So yes! Degree Mill!!!

Tim, do you have a M.Div as well? Was the Th.M one year beyond the M.Div?

 

[Greektim]

Tim, do you have a M.Div as well? Was the Th.M one year beyond the M.Div?

My situation was quite different than most. I did an M.A. and started a Ph.D. I dropped out of the program a quarter of the way through b/c the lack of rigor and theological change I was experiencing. So getting an MDiv equivalency required only 2 Greek exegesis classes since I did so much Greek in my undergrad as well as 2 other classes. And my ThM took so long b/c shortly after I started, I moved to Honduras. It took me 4 years in the end b/c I only took classes in the summer.

 

[Greektim]

How many papers did you have to write like that?

One for every class I took. For the PhD seminars I did for the ThM, there were extra projects and presentations as well. For one class, I had to do 3 book "interactions" each 10 pages long, 2 powerpoint presentations for the entire class, and a long research paper. That doesn't count the required reading either. Don't get me started on the chunk of my life dedicated to my thesis. This is why when I see someone touting a Th.M. from a place like Slidell, I get pretty peeved.

 

[Revmitchell]

One for every class I took. For the PhD seminars I did for the ThM, there were extra projects and presentations as well. For one class, I had to do 3 book "interactions" each 10 pages long, 2 powerpoint presentations for the entire class, and a long research paper. That doesn't count the required reading either. Don't get me started on the chunk of my life dedicated to my thesis. This is why when I see someone touting a Th.M. from a place like Slidell, I get pretty peeved.

Minus the thesis I had to do all that for my bach and masters.

 

[wpe3bql]

Once I encountered a "Baptist educator" who urged me to attend his school.

When I asked him to name some of his school's faculty, he began listing several theological heavyweights (including some of Dallas TS's giants).

My impression was somewhat diminished when he continued to mention such gentlemen as C. H. Spurgeon, etc.

When I asked about exactly how Bro. Spurgeon taught his class(es), he merely replied, "He teaches us from his books......his books!!" :thumbsup:

So....taking a page from this beloved brother's school faculty, one could probably add to it such individuals as, say, John or Paul, or Daniel, or Moses,.....or.......

I decided not to immediately transfer to his school.


My loss, I'm sure. :tear:

 

[JonC]

My impression was somewhat diminished when he continued to mention such gentlemen as C. H. Spurgeon, etc.

What??? You have something against Professor Spurgeon??? :laugh:

 

[wpe3bql]

What??? You have something against Professor Spurgeon??? :laugh:

He wouldn't answer my questions....even though I raised my hand several times!!

Guess those cigars he smoked might have affected his vision.

 

[Greektim]

Minus the thesis I had to do all that for my bach and masters.

I'm calling you out on that.

What bachelors class did you have 5,000 pages of reading, a 30 page research paper (publishable in a reputable journal, mind you, which mine did), 2 ppt presentations to teach the class (which was its own set of reading; mine was on 4 Ezra and the Testament of the 12 Patriarchs), and 3 10-page book interactions (these books were no popular level easy reads either)??? And that was just 1 class! I don't think you did that for a graduate level class either.

Now multiply that by 8 and throw a 160 page thesis on that as well... savvy?

 

[wpe3bql]

I had to do all that for my bach

Which Bach was this?

Johann Sebastian, or was it one his large brood of sons? :thumbs:

 

[Greektim]

So now I remember why revwmc is defending slidell... he has a "ThM" and a "ThD" from them. Course load:

Master of Theology

The Master of Theology is composed of thirty (30) credit hours above the Bachelor’s degree. These credit hours are composed of ten (10) courses. The student may select the ten (10) courses from the “Course Selection Sheet”. If the student prefers, the seminary can select the recommended courses.

Doctor of Theology

The Doctorate degree is composed of thirty (30) hours above the Master’s Degree. These credit hours are composed of ten (10) courses. The student may select the ten (10) courses from the “Course Selection Sheet”. If the student prefers, the seminary can select the recommended courses.​

No thesis for the ThM... no dissertation for the ThD... he had to do 60 "credits" and he was "Doctor" revwmc. And I've never heard of a 30 credit ThD program, much less one without a dissertation. And I've never seen a 30 credit master of theology program that directly followed a bachelors degree rather than an MDiv. Diploma mill!

You claiming to have a ThM or a ThD is comparable (but not as deplorable) as the stolen valor phenomenon going on. You are touting yourself up to be something you are not.

You have 2 research degrees. Care to share any of your research with us? I'll show you mine. They're in the journals articles I've published.

And I've never seen a theology program that didn't require the biblical languages. As my former undergrad theology prof said (an actual ThM Dallas Seminary, ThD Grace Seminary), "a theologian must be a grammarian."

 

[JonC]

I'm calling you out on that.

What bachelors class did you have 5,000 pages of reading, a 30 page research paper (publishable in a reputable journal, mind you, which mine did), 2 ppt presentations to teach the class (which was its own set of reading; mine was on 4 Ezra and the Testament of the 12 Patriarchs), and 3 10-page book interactions (these books were no popular level easy reads either)??? And that was just 1 class! I don't think you did that for a graduate level class either.

Now multiply that by 8 and throw a 160 page thesis on that as well... savvy?

Man!!!...... I have a MA and wanted to go back and finish the MDiv specifically because I was really interested in the ThM. You just talked me out of it. :laugh:

The difference between the MA and the MDiv is more courses (not different levels of work or even different courses....I could have chosen any from any MDiv course when I was working on my MA....but there was simply more courses to take). But the ThM is post-graduate work. Judging from the difference between undergraduate and graduate level courses, I always assumed post-graduate courses more demanding. I think I would be disappointed if it were not so, just as I would have been disappointed if graduate level work was on par with undergraduate.

 

[Greektim]

Man!!!...... I have a MA and wanted to go back and finish the MDiv specifically because I was really interested in the ThM. You just talked me out of it. :laugh:

The difference between the MA and the MDiv is more courses (not different levels of work or even different courses....I could have chosen any from any MDiv course when I was working on my MA....but there was simply more courses to take). But the ThM is post-graduate work. Judging from the difference between undergraduate and graduate level courses, I always assumed post-graduate courses more demanding. I think I would be disappointed if it were not so, just as I would have been disappointed if graduate level work was on par with undergraduate.

It depends where you go and the strength of you MA. Some places are more flexible with their MDiv equivalency. You may not need to do the entire 90+ credit program to be accepted in a ThM program.

 

[JonC]

It depends where you go and the strength of you MA. Some places are more flexible with their MDiv equivalency. You may not need to do the entire 90+ credit program to be accepted in a ThM program.

:wavey: Thank you very much. You have peaked my interest once again, and I'll check out my options.

 

[reverist]

It depends where you go and the strength of you MA. Some places are more flexible with their MDiv equivalency. You may not need to do the entire 90+ credit program to be accepted in a ThM program.

Just a brief comment: rigorous MA courses often appear in research-oriented MA degrees. So, consider the MA Old Testament or MA Philosophy of Religion. The hardest course I've taken in my life was in Epistemology, and two brief anecdotes come from it: 1. After the first day, a poor kid came up to Dr. Welty and said, "Is every day going to be like this?" referring to how difficult the material was. Presumably, Dr. Welty answered in the affirmative, because I never saw that guy again. 2. After the semester ended, Dr. Welty apologized to me because it wasn't as hard as he would have liked it, since more MDiv-ers took the course. I've never been so glad for MDiv-ers in my life!

Anyway, the point is that the research degrees can be quite rigorous on an MA level, as Tim has suggested.

 

[John of Japan]

Then there's ye olde honorary degree.

I'm reminded of a seminar I attended way back about 35 years ago at TN Temple. The main man for it was none other than Dr. Lexie Wiggins.

I saw Dr. Wiggins in 2012 at a supporting church. He was doing quite well, and we were glad to see each other after many years. (I had him for Sys. Theo. back in the day.)

 

[Revmitchell]

I'm calling you out on that.

What bachelors class did you have 5,000 pages of reading, a 30 page research paper (publishable in a reputable journal, mind you, which mine did), 2 ppt presentations to teach the class (which was its own set of reading; mine was on 4 Ezra and the Testament of the 12 Patriarchs), and 3 10-page book interactions (these books were no popular level easy reads either)??? And that was just 1 class! I don't think you did that for a graduate level class either.

Now multiply that by 8 and throw a 160 page thesis on that as well... savvy?

Every Theology class in my BS in religion and Masters in Theology classes. The numbers may not be exactly the same but pretty close. It is a common work load.

I am glad for you to "call out" whatever you want. You seem to think too much of your own work.

 

[Greektim]

Every Theology class in my BS in religion and Masters in Theology classes. The numbers may not be exactly the same but pretty close. It is a common work load.

I am glad for you to "call out" whatever you want. You seem to think too much of your own work.

I'm sorry. I don't believe you. I don't believe you did that coarse load for every single class in your undergrad and grad. The fact is, I know it is not the same. The level of scholarship expected at the undergrad and grad level is not the same. I had to produce publishable papers. Publishable by the standards of my profs who are well published. That alone separates it from what you did in your BS in religion and whatever masters degree you are talking about.

And did you work on a ThM? Cause you mentioned a masters in theology. A ThM is a postgrad degree, fyi.

 

[Revmitchell]

I'm sorry. I don't believe you. I don't believe you did that coarse load for every single class in your undergrad and grad. The fact is, I know it is not the same. The level of scholarship expected at the undergrad and grad level is not the same. I had to produce publishable papers. Publishable by the standards of my profs who are well published. That lone separates it from what you did in your BS in religion and whatever masters degree you are talking about.

And did you work on a ThM? Cause you mentioned a masters in theology.

I don't care about your publishable papers. Not impressive nor does it change the work load. The massive amount of reading, the number of papers which required 20 to 30 pages, power point presentations, smaller papers in between. I had to do it all.

Now you can hang on to your "I don't believe it" all you want. The fact is that is a common work load. I am not looking to feel academically superior to anyone so I do not get offended over someone else's work load.

In case you are unaware the difference in the "level" of scholarship between these is not the work load but the required depth on a subject in which you are required to go. The length of the papers do not necessarily determine the depth of the paper. It also seems to me that at the graduate level you get nailed for things like sentence structure common grammar mistakes and even how well the thought is written out far more than at the Bach level. Also the smallest of errors in citations are not tolerated at the grad level. I could go on but the point is there are all kinds of differences at the grad level it is just that work load is not necessarily one of them.

 

[Greektim]

I don't care about your publishable papers. Not impressive nor does it change the work load. The massive amount of reading, the number of papers which required 20 to 30 pages, power point presentations, smaller papers in between. I had to do it all.

Now you can hang on to your "I don't believe it" all you want. The fact is that is a common work load. I am not looking to feel academically superior to anyone so I do not get offended over someone else's work load.

In case you are unaware the difference in the "level" of scholarship between these is not the work load but the required depth on a subject in which you are required to go. The length of the papers do not necessarily determine the depth of the paper. It also seems to me that at the graduate level you get nailed for things like sentence structure common grammar mistakes and even how well the thought is written out far more than at the Bach level. Also the smallest of errors in citations are not tolerated at the grad level. I could go on but the point is there are all kinds of differences at the grad level it is just that work load is not necessarily one of them.

Still callin' bull on it.