What would you consider a Degree Mill?

[Revmitchell]

Still callin' bull on it.

Of course

 

[robustheologian]

No thesis for the ThM... no dissertation for the ThD...

And I've never seen a theology program that didn't require the biblical languages.

Those are definite signs of a diploma mill.

 

[revmwc]

So how about this one:

Master of Arts in Theological Studies (M.A.T.S.)

CORE COURSES (27 hours) Hrs
APOL 500 Introduction to Apologetics 3
CHHI 510 Survey of History of Christianity 3
EVAN 525 Contemporary Evangelism 3
GLST 500 Global Studies Survey 3
NBST 510 New Testament Introduction 3
NBST 610 Hermeneutics 3
OBST 510 Old Testament Introduction 3
RTCH 500 Research, Writing & Ministry Preparation1 3
THEO 510 Survey of Theology 3

THEOLOGY COGNATE (9 hours)
THEO 525 Systematic Theology I 3
THEO 530 Systematic Theology II 3
THEO 626 Doctrine of God 3

TOTAL HOURS 36


Complete 36 hours
A minimum of 30 hours must be completed through ___________, not to include credits from a prior degree earned through _____________
A maximum of 6 hours of transfer credit, including credit from a degree on the same academic level previously earned through ____________, may be applied to the degree 2.0 GPA.
Degree must be completed within 5 years
All Resident students are required to enroll in and pass GRST 500 in their first semester All Online students admitted on Academic Caution are required to enroll in and pass GRST 500 in their first semester
Please submit a Graduation Application to the Registrar’s Office at the beginning of the final semester


SUGGESTED COURSE SEQUENCE

First Semester Second Semester
RTCH 5001 3 EVAN 525 3
OBST 510 3 NBST 510 3
THEO 510 3 THEO 525 3
Total 9 Total 9
Third Semester Fourth Semester
APOL 500 3 CHHI 510 3
GLST 500 3 THEO 530 3
NBST 610 3 THEO 626 3
Total 9 Total 9

 

[Greektim]

So how about this one:

Master of Arts in Theological Studies (M.A.T.S.)

CORE COURSES (27 hours) Hrs
APOL 500 Introduction to Apologetics 3
CHHI 510 Survey of History of Christianity 3
EVAN 525 Contemporary Evangelism 3
GLST 500 Global Studies Survey 3
NBST 510 New Testament Introduction 3
NBST 610 Hermeneutics 3
OBST 510 Old Testament Introduction 3
RTCH 500 Research, Writing & Ministry Preparation1 3
THEO 510 Survey of Theology 3

THEOLOGY COGNATE (9 hours)
THEO 525 Systematic Theology I 3
THEO 530 Systematic Theology II 3
THEO 626 Doctrine of God 3

TOTAL HOURS 36


Complete 36 hours
A minimum of 30 hours must be completed through ___________, not to include credits from a prior degree earned through _____________
A maximum of 6 hours of transfer credit, including credit from a degree on the same academic level previously earned through ____________, may be applied to the degree 2.0 GPA.
Degree must be completed within 5 years
All Resident students are required to enroll in and pass GRST 500 in their first semester All Online students admitted on Academic Caution are required to enroll in and pass GRST 500 in their first semester
Please submit a Graduation Application to the Registrar’s Office at the beginning of the final semester


SUGGESTED COURSE SEQUENCE

First Semester Second Semester
RTCH 5001 3 EVAN 525 3
OBST 510 3 NBST 510 3
THEO 510 3 THEO 525 3
Total 9 Total 9
Third Semester Fourth Semester
APOL 500 3 CHHI 510 3
GLST 500 3 THEO 530 3
NBST 610 3 THEO 626 3
Total 9 Total 9

Yes... some redundant or useless classes there when Greek and Hebrew should be on the list.

Get rid of evangelism, global studies, and survey of theology. The research, writing, and ministry prep class seems to be 2 separate entities. Lose that and you have 6 credits for Greek and 6 for Hebrew. After all, this degree is a research degree not a ministry prep degree.

 

[Greektim]

Of course

Show me 1 of your syllabi from either your bachelors or masters that had 5,000 pages of required reading to go with the other research you had to do. Just one, and I'll recant.

 

[revmwc]

The Master of Theological Studies is the shortest fully online master’s degree in a Southern Baptist seminary. This 36-hour degree combines rigorous academics from a world-class faculty with the accessibility and affordability demanded by our ever-changing world.
Required Courses for MTS Credit Hours
Biblical Hermeneutics 3
Basic Old Testament I 3
Basic Old Testament II 3
Basic New Testament I 3
Basic New Testament II 3
Church History I 3
Church History II 3
Baptist Heritage 3
Systematic Theology I 3
Systematic Theology II 3
Christian Apologetics 3
Bible and Moral Issues 3
36 hours

While some church staff, for a variety of reasons, will never relocate to a seminary campus, any level of equipping we can offer will positively impacts their efforts. The new online MTS serves the church through a rigorously academic, conveniently accessible, and surprisingly affordable online education.
Research shows that most students never finish lengthy, online degree programs. Many choose online degrees over moving to campus for significant reasons such as family obligations, ministry assignments or current jobs that provide for the family. The reasons they do not relocate end up being the same reasons they do not finish a lengthy online degree. A 90-hour online degree can turn into a decade-long project that is necessarily abandoned when the kids or ministry take priority. By just taking two classes per semester, you can complete a 36-hour degree in three years.
Our MTS serves the student by providing an achievable goal packed with quality education. We kept the MTS short by including the essentials. A short degree is achievable and beneficial for Sunday School teachers, small group leaders, fathers who want to lead their family well or any committed follower of Christ.
The only pre-requisite is an undergraduate from an accredited institution.

 

[revmwc]

Then there is this one:

accredited by the Southern Association of Colleges and Schools Commission on Colleges (SACSCOC) to award certificates, associate, bachelors, and masters degrees. Contact the Commission on Colleges at 1865 Southern Lane Decatur, Georgia 30033-4097, or call 404-679-4500 for questions about the status of ______________ University.
_____________ music program is accredited by the National Association of Schools of Music (NASM). The teacher preparation program is approved by the Education Professional Standards Board (EPSB) for teacher education and certification and is accredited by the National Council for Accreditation for Teacher Education (NCATE). The NASDTEC Interstate Contract provides opportunity for graduates to earn teaching certificates in other states, although there may be applicable conditions. The Baccalaureate Social Work and Masters of Social Work programs are accredited by the Council on Social Work Education (CSWE). Business programs are accredited by the International Assembly of Collegiate Business Education (IACBE).
• The Master of Theology program is a 30-hour program of graduate theological and ministerial training that provides an 18-hour emphasis in one of three areas (Pastoral Leadership, Biblical Studies and Theological Studies) and prepares the Christian minister for effective kingdom service through the church for the world. Students must choose one of the three core emphasis areas.
18-hour Core Courses for each Emphasis Area:
Biblical Studies
CHS 510 Old Testament History & Interpretation I
CHS 511 Old Testament History & Interpretation II
CHS 513 Old Testament Prophets
CHS 520 New Testament History & Interpretation I
CHS 521 New Testament History & Interpretation II
CHS 580 Pastoral Letters, Pastoral Leadership
Pastoral Leadership
CHS 551 Journey into Christlikeness
CHS 552 Pastoral Ministries & Evangelism
CHS 553 Ministry of Proclamation & Worship
CHS 555 Pastoral Care & Counseling
CHS 567 Leadership Development
CHS 661 Innovations in the Contemporary Church
Theological Studies
CHS 531 Christian Theology
CHS 543 Ethics of the Christian Faith
CHS 571 Pre-Reformation History of the Church
CHS 572 Post-Reformation History of the Church
CHS 580 Baptist History and Heritage
CHS 634 Gospel and Postmodernism
Elective Options
CHS 525 The General Letters (Biblical)
CHS 544 Philosophy of the Christian Faith (Theological)
CHS 556 Christian Evangelism and the Church (Pastoral Leadership)
CHS 557 Church Planting (Pastoral Leadership)
CHS 558 Pastoral Care in Human Crisis (Pastoral Leadership)
CHS 561 Introduction to Educational Ministries (Pastoral Leadership)
CHS 562 Intergenerational Ministries (Pastoral Leadership)
CHS 580 Introduction to Biblical Hermeneutics (Biblical)
CHS 580 Archaeology & Biblical Studies (Biblical)
CHS 599 Supervised Practicum (Pastoral Leadership)
Academic Requirements
GPA average during pursuit of the degree must be 3.0 for all courses. Only 1 "C" grade may be offered for credit toward the 30 required hours. No "D" grade will be accepted as satisfactory for degree completion.

Students earning a "D" may repeat the course and the highest grade ("B" or better - or see previous requirement related to the acceptability of one grade of "C") earned in a subsequent attempt will be considered for degree completion.
Graduation Requirements
Final Comprehensive Philosophy of Ministry Essay (PME): Each student submitted a 2-3 page minimum PME as an applicant into the program. In the student’s last graduate term, he or she must complete in addition to all coursework a Comprehensive PME, which allows the student to update the initial essay. The instructions are below.
1. Compose a seven to ten (7-10) page critical essay (New Times Roman font, 1” margins, double-spaced, excluding cover page [title, your name, date, advisor’s name]) in which you update your Philosophy of Ministry statement in light of your 18-hour emphasis.
2. Synthesize your understanding of the philosophy and practice of Christian ministry with the knowledge and skills that were part of your seminar coursework. In light of your 18-hour emphasis respond to the following questions (be as specific as possible).
• How would you now describe your philosophy of Christian Ministry?
• How has study in your area of emphasis altered, expanded, and/or given new vision for your philosophy of ministry?
• What sources and resources do you now hold as necessary for ministry?
• What new goals do you set for yourself and for your ministry?
3. Submit the essay to your advisor per email and as per the following time schedule.
• December Graduation: Essay is due on or before November 15.
• May Graduation: Essay is due on or before April 15.

 

[Revmitchell]

Show me 1 of your syllabi from either your bachelors or masters that had 5,000 pages of required reading to go with the other research you had to do. Just one, and I'll recant.

Uh I do not need you to recant. You can hold on to whatever belief you want. You have your agenda and I do not need to bend over backwards to meet it. Neither do I hang on to syllabi from old classes. I'm good. I will leave you too it.

 

[revmwc]

Yes... some redundant or useless classes there when Greek and Hebrew should be on the list.

Get rid of evangelism, global studies, and survey of theology. The research, writing, and ministry prep class seems to be 2 separate entities. Lose that and you have 6 credits for Greek and 6 for Hebrew. After all, this degree is a research degree not a ministry prep degree.

This one from Liberty University.

 

[Greektim]

Uh I do not need you to recant. You can hold on to whatever belief you want. You have your agenda and I do not need to bend over backwards to meet it. Neither do I hang on to syllabi from old classes. I'm good. I will leave you too it.

Sure... We'll just take your word for it then. I love it that when you are called out as being false, you just say "whatever". Too bad you weren't like that before you started asserting yourself.

 

[Greektim]

This one from Liberty University.

[sarcasm]There's a school known for its theological prowess.[/sarcasm]

 

[reverist]

So how about this one:

Master of Arts in Theological Studies (M.A.T.S.)

CORE COURSES (27 hours) Hrs
APOL 500 Introduction to Apologetics 3
CHHI 510 Survey of History of Christianity 3
EVAN 525 Contemporary Evangelism 3
GLST 500 Global Studies Survey 3
NBST 510 New Testament Introduction 3
NBST 610 Hermeneutics 3
OBST 510 Old Testament Introduction 3
RTCH 500 Research, Writing & Ministry Preparation1 3
THEO 510 Survey of Theology 3

THEOLOGY COGNATE (9 hours)
THEO 525 Systematic Theology I 3
THEO 530 Systematic Theology II 3
THEO 626 Doctrine of God 3

TOTAL HOURS 36


Complete 36 hours
A minimum of 30 hours must be completed through ___________, not to include credits from a prior degree earned through _____________
A maximum of 6 hours of transfer credit, including credit from a degree on the same academic level previously earned through ____________, may be applied to the degree 2.0 GPA.
Degree must be completed within 5 years
All Resident students are required to enroll in and pass GRST 500 in their first semester All Online students admitted on Academic Caution are required to enroll in and pass GRST 500 in their first semester
Please submit a Graduation Application to the Registrar’s Office at the beginning of the final semester


SUGGESTED COURSE SEQUENCE

First Semester Second Semester
RTCH 5001 3 EVAN 525 3
OBST 510 3 NBST 510 3
THEO 510 3 THEO 525 3
Total 9 Total 9
Third Semester Fourth Semester
APOL 500 3 CHHI 510 3
GLST 500 3 THEO 530 3
NBST 610 3 THEO 626 3
Total 9 Total 9

Based on the course codes, this is a Liberty degree, and their MATS is not considered a research degree, but a professional MA. All that said, I am not for degree mills and I am all for making research MAs academically rigorous!

 

[nypastor29]

Degree Mills Consist of the following:

1. No interaction whatsoever with faculty or staff. (Commonly due to the institution not having a faculty or staff)
2. Look at the Faculty page. If almost the entire 'team" has degrees from their own institution that ought to be a red flag!
3. When you call up and they ask for a credit card info to get started without asking for your name. (True story... everytime I would call to make payment they didn't even ask for my name, just my card number. Yes, I was clueless at the time.)
4. Extremely low-cost for entire degree. (Example: $700 for a Bachelors degree, $950 for a Masters, etc.) Places that charge nothing ARE NOT degree mills, but are rather perhaps institutions that genuinely want to help you get some form of education.
5. They give bogus "Accreditation" status. Usually they will say they are not accredited but rather an affiliate of some accredited institution. (In most cases, even those accredited institutions are bogus themselves.) Places that state up front that they are NOT accredited and do not have any desire to be accredited, are NOT considered degree mills. There are many "sound, solid, and legitimate" colleges that are not accredited, but are still legitimate institutions. (Example: Ambassador Baptist College)
6. The idea behind degree mill is the obvious fact that you can pretty much get a supposed "degree" in a very QUICK time with little to no effort and hardly any cost.
7. If your degree comes looking like it was printed from a office jet printer... it might be a redne... I mean a degree mill.

Hope this helps.

 

[mcdirector]

Each individual has to make the decision about a program that is right for them. However, I would be suspicious about the validity of a program/degree if:

1. they claim accreditation from an agency that is remotely shady. Every school, with rare exception, starts out as unaccredited. Some never intend to get accreditation. That's not a problem. Putting on a show is.
2. if the hours are out of a small range from the norm. For example: Uof Phoenix has a 36 hour MBA. Red flags for that all over the place.
3. no entry requirements
4. no course listings.
5. no faculty listing or a list of faculty that I can't contact, look up, never heard of in the field.
6. money required up front and/or outlandish tuition (like the for profits require)

 

[Revmitchell]

Sure... We'll just take your word for it then. I love it that when you are called out as being false, you just say "whatever". Too bad you weren't like that before you started asserting yourself.

See folks this is why we cannot have reasonnable discussions on this board. This childish attitude needs to come to an end. It lifts up no one and it brings the name of Christ under reproach.