What would You do as Pastor

[revmwc]

A Wednesday night children's teacher has to call a child down for disturbing the class and pitching a fit. Talks to her Aunt who gets very upset with the teacher. The Teacher mentions the incident to the cousin of the child at Walmart. The father after things have been discussed at church and thought to be settled, comes to church ready to physically accost the female teacher. Gives a letter to the pastors wife about the situation. The man has threatened bodily harm if the teacher even gets near the child.

Here is how it is being treated at a church. The teacher has been reassigned a new class and told to stay away from the child. Problem the church has an open gym program on Wednesday and all the children are in the gym. Can that teacher be in open gym, she would be near the student. How about in the Sanctuary the teacher and student could be in there together. How would you pastors handle this situation? The pastor and his wife said they don't want to lose the family that is threatening the teacher. Yet this man became so enraged that his daughter said thank you for teaching me to the teacher and was waiting in the wings to jump her. So do you lose 11 family members of the teachers family or worry about losing 3 in the students family. The pastor feels this will solve the problem by reassigning the teacher. yet the threat of physical has not been addressed and still reamains.

 

[Sapper Woody]

As soon as physical harm is threatened, I would file a restraining order on the man, making it illegal for him to come onto church premises.

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[TCassidy]

Tough question, but I would put it before the deacons and the church family to disfellowship the man making threats. In some jurisdictions making threats of serious bodily harm is a felony.

 

[agedman]

Tough question, but I would put it before the deacons and the church family to disfellowship the man making threats. In some jurisdictions making threats of serious bodily harm is a felony.

I agree. However, I also consider a more aggressive approach.

The teacher should never be alone. A deacon or fellow woman should be within 10-15 feet away at all times until this is resolved.

Second, this is a matter for church discipline. Because it has become public in the assembly, it is no longer merely a deacon matter.

In a gathering of the assembly, the facts need to be laid out, each side given opportunity to have their say, and then the assembly deal with the situation. Either repentance or removal. Only two options.

 

[Reformed]

There is always more to the story. At the least the man who threatened violence should have a restraining order filed against him and barred from church property. The elders can investigate all the other stuff and come to a resolution. Threats of violence need to be taken seriously and dealt with decisively.


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[annsni]

I think there is a lot to this story that we are not getting. Things were NOT handled in a Biblical manner and I think the time is long past when all parties should sit down together with the pastor and a senior deacon to discuss what happened and how to deal with it all. The teacher mentioning it to the child's cousin in Walmart was a mistake. Does the father go to the church or is it other family members who take the child and he is not even a Christian? What sort of issues were there with the child that would have caused an issue?

I agree that no teacher should be alone with the child. There should have been someone else else in there who would have been able to confirm what happened to the pastor and then the teacher should have spoken to the child's guardian at church to explain what happened. I think much has happened that was handled wrong and so now it is time to get everyone in the same room and deal with it. But bottom line is this: physical threatening is very dangerous and would likely cause us to assign a security personnel to the teacher to keep an eye on her to protect her. It is a sad thing that anyone would feel this is the appropriate action - especially a man towards a woman. I feel badly for that child.

 

[Reynolds]

A Wednesday night children's teacher has to call a child down for disturbing the class and pitching a fit. Talks to her Aunt who gets very upset with the teacher. The Teacher mentions the incident to the cousin of the child at Walmart. The father after things have been discussed at church and thought to be settled, comes to church ready to physically accost the female teacher. Gives a letter to the pastors wife about the situation. The man has threatened bodily harm if the teacher even gets near the child.

Here is how it is being treated at a church. The teacher has been reassigned a new class and told to stay away from the child. Problem the church has an open gym program on Wednesday and all the children are in the gym. Can that teacher be in open gym, she would be near the student. How about in the Sanctuary the teacher and student could be in there together. How would you pastors handle this situation? The pastor and his wife said they don't want to lose the family that is threatening the teacher. Yet this man became so enraged that his daughter said thank you for teaching me to the teacher and was waiting in the wings to jump her. So do you lose 11 family members of the teachers family or worry about losing 3 in the students family. The pastor feels this will solve the problem by reassigning the teacher. yet the threat of physical has not been addressed and still reamains.

You do what is right! It does not matter if you lose 1 or 50. I do not pass judgment without knowing full details.

 

[Reynolds]

I agree. However, I also consider a more aggressive approach.

The teacher should never be alone. A deacon or fellow woman should be within 10-15 feet away at all times until this is resolved.

Second, this is a matter for church discipline. Because it has become public in the assembly, it is no longer merely a deacon matter.

In a gathering of the assembly, the facts need to be laid out, each side given opportunity to have their say, and then the assembly deal with the situation. Either repentance or removal. Only two options.

Well, in many churches that will simply result in a split down family lines.

 

[Reynolds]

There is always more to the story. At the least the man who threatened violence should have a restraining order filed against him and barred from church property. The elders can investigate all the other stuff and come to a resolution. Threats of violence need to be taken seriously and dealt with decisively.


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I would have to know the exact wording to know if a restraining order could be filed. Here, I could legally tell someone "If you touch my kid, I will rip your arm off and beat you to death with it." Why? Because its an if, then statement and not a threat. The if assumes a violation of the law.

 

[Salty]

Just to confirm - is the father a member of the church, an attender or.......

 

[revmwc]

The man as far as I know is not saved. He attends infrequently but his Aunt attends regularly. The girl was bossing other children around and telling them to get off of the device they were using. Then let out a high pitches scream. This caused the teachers 13 year old to storm out yelling. As well as the girl. The girls aunt became madd because her niece was being blamed. The teacher corrected her son but the aunt blamed him for it all. The man was waiting outside the church Wednesday night ready to jump the teacher.

 

[Reformed]

I would have to know the exact wording to know if a restraining order could be filed. Here, I could legally tell someone "If you touch my kid, I will rip your arm off and beat you to death with it." Why? Because its an if, then statement and not a threat. The if assumes a violation of the law.

That's why I lead with "There is always more to the story".

 

[Deacon]

I agree, things were NOT handled in a Biblical manner

Teachers should teach children in teams.
There should be additional help available close by when needed for difficult situations
Some children require one-on-one oversight with a dedicated special care person
Privacy should be maintained, gossiping to other family members doesn't help a bit

It was a problem waiting to happen

Rob

 

[Reynolds]

I don't know

Just to confirm - is the father a member of the church, an attender or.......

I don't know how I would handle it if it were my child. I have made some promises to some people about what would happen if they messed with them.
A boy I know has a white Daddy and A Cherokee Mama. His Daddy is a freak of nature. He is 6'10", 330 lbs, solid as a brick. They were in the feed store and the boy, who was about 6 or 7 at the time, messed with some of the checkers on the checker board. One if the white men sitting there said "boy, thems my checkers. Keep your hands off of them." His Daddy snatched the man up and held him by the throat in the air. Then another white man jumped in. The young mans Daddy beat the ever living fool out of both of them. I mean an old fashioned, blood flying beat down. Then the Daddy got his son home and spanked him for "messing with other peoples stuff."

That's pretty much the way I am. I discipline my boys. It is not your place to do it unless I give you permission. You tell me and I will take care of it.

 

[agedman]

Far to much drama for the assembly.

The assembly need to meet together, listen to all sides and make a decision.

 

[agedman]

Well, in many churches that will simply result in a split down family lines.

It could.

Personality conflicts do separate friendships.

However, when a threat of physical assault is presented, and it is publicaly known to the assembly, the assembly needs to make the final decisive action.

 

[Steven Yeadon]

The man as far as I know is not saved. He attends infrequently but his Aunt attends regularly. The girl was bossing other children around and telling them to get off of the device they were using. Then let out a high pitches scream. This caused the teachers 13 year old to storm out yelling. As well as the girl. The girls aunt became madd because her niece was being blamed. The teacher corrected her son but the aunt blamed him for it all. The man was waiting outside the church Wednesday night ready to jump the teacher.

OK, first this is likely a criminal legal matter. Threats of violence that have any implication of being carried out mean that the law has most likely been broken, especially if the threat is between strangers.

Seriously, if I was privy to this, and desired to keep my security clearance, I would talk to the pastor about the need to call the police. If the pastor didn't have a good enough response to keep a poor woman from assault by a man in a fit of rage, I would call the police as soon as I got in the car from the meeting. My only question to the police would be "what do I do in this situation?"

If that woman is assaulted by a man in a fit of rage, even if he say got drunk and snapped, the church is doomed to litigation that could bankrupt it by the teacher and her family. In addition, I do not know the laws in your state for being negligent to stop an assault and battery. However, expect the news to put the church on TV if things go badly.

I am not an attorney, this is not free legal advice.

Seriously though, I would inform the police if I was in that situation. I would feel I needed to to keep my record clean for security clearance. OK, but this is the church of Jesus, so please do the right thing .

-EDIT-

The church should definitely contact its attorney to get their take on the matter. For the safety of the church and its staff.

 

[JonC]

First, you don't worry about who you will lose as members. The church should, IMHO, get together to discuss the issue and investigate the charges and claims on both sides. Pray together corporately. And in submission to God's Word make the decision over what to do. But whatever is done go the extra mile to make it in love.

I disagree about seeking an attorney. It may be the best move in terms of a church as a business, but I'm not sure it is the correct move to willingly take this out in the secular courts (even if forced to do so by the father or the teacher).

 

[agedman]

First, you don't worry about who you will lose as members. The church should, IMHO, get together to discuss the issue and investigate the charges and claims on both sides. Pray together corporately. And in submission to God's Word make the decision over what to do. But whatever is done go the extra mile to make it in love.

I disagree about seeking an attorney. It may be the best move in terms of a church as a business, but I'm not sure it is the correct move to willingly take this out in the secular courts (even if forced to do so by the father or the teacher).

Because the threat of physical violence was publicly made, the authorities need to at least be aware. If there is history that they know (violations of court proceedings involving other incidents) it may be a non-issue for the assembly.

One thing I would defiantly attend is assigning people of character as witness/protectors to the teacher until this matter is well settled.