What would your counsel be in this situation?

I would want to know more about the situation. If I were the counselor, my goal would be to have the couple's faith in God and each other strengthened. The choice to move suddenly could be how the husband is choosing to deal with stress in another area of his life (not necessarily related to the stated dislike of his job) -- if the move is really an attempt to deal with other problems in the marriage such as one spouse's unfaithfulness, jealousy, drug/alcohol abuse, etc., counseling the couple to move would not help solve the underlying problem.

The other question I would have is that as the scenario is stated in the original post is the husband's approach to the issue. Sudden decisions about major life issues tend to throw up a red flag with me about people's tempers and impulsivity -- two things that could lead to an abusive situation (either physical or emotional). Even though the husband in question might be the least likely person to be abusive it would be my responsibility to at least explore these issues a little further.

 

I would like to add to my other posts and say that the husband should be counseled as to the importance of his role as head of the wife and make sure he is doing the right thing(he has the greater responsibility)...there is so much responsibility for the husband to be acting biblically,also. So,IMO,the couseling of this couple is not to just tell the wife she has to go...but a process of seeking the right thing for that particular family....following God's biblical roles in the family will always be rewarded.

 

Unfortunately, Preach, I see too many people
deliberately marrying those who do not know the
Lord, too many marrying those who have known
Him just a short while, too many marrying people
who are obsessive or who have other disorders --
it happens all the time!

I have also heard pastors walk away from
marriages in which the officiate, whispering, "I'd
give them two years, max." Then why did you
marry them?

 

My fraternal grandparents came over from Italy in a wave of immigration to a better life.

The patriarch (oldest male, usually the father) would come over for a year or so, work, save, establish a dwelling place and then send for the rest of the family.

Scripture : Ephesians 5: 25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

HankD

 

My thoughts are that this man most probably is nearing 40 and going through a mid life problem thinking his life has been wasted, he hasn't accomplished enough, etc. This man needs to be counseled... and needs to take time before making any rash decisions he'll regret later.

I bet all the women over 50 here can tell stories of things their hubbie's went through and they all survived. I know I sure can!

If this couple approached for counseling, I would suggest pastor ask the husband to put his plans on hold for 60 days. Then pastor should counsel the husband during that 60 days to see if he can help this man with whatever is concerning him in life. I would suggest that pastor not take sides with the husband or wife or even talk about submission. Right now, I think this is an emotional issue with this husband.

Sorry guys... but you DO go through a mid life crisis or male menopause! It's too bad it isn't more recognized so those who need help can get it.

 

Submission of wife to husband has always been a "touchy" subject because many people think that it means that a wife must do whatever her husband says no matter what.

I see many of the posters applying this scenario to their own lives and marriages. I have been so fortunate to have a husband who always considered my wishes as well as his and who would listen to my side of every issue even though he might not agree, he would listen.

It is easy for a wife to be submissive to a husband that she trusts to do the best for his family under the guidance of our Lord Jesus Christ. I also think a husband respects a wife who will voice her opinion in a loving way if she disagrees with him. Sometimes, he may decide that her opinion or idea is better than his and of course, they should pray about any differences or major decisions affecting their family.

PTW, asked about counseling and which one would we do if we were to counsel this couple in his scenario:

a) you need more information

Basically, I think most of the people agree that more information would be needed to counsel this couple.

b) tell the wife she needs to go

Tell the wife to go if her husband goes. Does she want to split up her family or be with her husband? Why doesn't she want to move? Does she want to live without her husband?

c) encourage the husband to rethink things and to stop driving a wedge in the marriage

Encourge him to listen to his wife's reasons for
not wanting to go.

I don't think that a counselor could choose just one of the options.

There are some great posts here on being submissive to one's husband.

 

Shouldn't your councel be to tell them to pray to seek God's will in this matter?

It's not your job as their pastor to tell them what that is.

[ April 02, 2003, 01:48 AM: Message edited by: Wisdom Seeker ]

 

IMO,a pastor should give biblical couseling...how would they be able to know God's specicfic will for this situation? The couple nor the pastor can for sure know God's plan here. The bible does not say anything about moving or job changes...but he can guide them and show them scripture on their relationship,their roles in the family and how to live those out...we have to learn to be obedient to what He does tell us in His word.

 

I haven't read every post in this thread, so forgive me if I'm repeating something.

Preach, you asked what my advice would be, and my advice still stands.

I would echo those who spoke of the husband loving his wife. Also, the husband's first priority in ministry is to his wife, (of course I would tell him this privately) but the qualifications are the same. He cannot be self-willed. Look at the husband in your example:

He ... is fed up with his job. He makes great money where he is. So money is not the issue.

He's just fed up with his job. This isn't about promoting the kingdom of God. It's all about him. If he doesn't like the answer I give him, then he shouldn't have asked.

 

Preach, I was afraid you would misinterpret what I was saying. You are in italics again and I am in straight print.

Helen, wouldn't that be like assisted suicide? I am not sure, but isn't there some sort of criminal charge if such a thing happened?

No, it wouldn't. For although death is likely, a radical change of diet might pull the person through. Or possibly simply prayer. And if that example is not what you can feel confident about answering, what about a husband who wants his wife to swim the English channel with him? Or sky dive with him? Take any scenario you like -- there are many, many real life cases where a husband asks the wife to do something distinctly dangerous. Is she then obligated to obey?


What about a woman that is married to a man that has a sexual disease and he still insists on her having relations with him? None of her loving requests to him mattered. No counseling from the Preacher, deacons or anyone else helped.

I ask because I lived something very similiar to this. For 11 years, I submitted to this because I "had" to. I weep over the cruelties I endured in the name of submission. Did I have a choice?

 

Preach, you didn't say the husband was lost in the example, and my advice is based on the information as given.

In the example they came to me for advice. Therefore I would advise him to consider his wife's needs and I would advise her to submit to her husband.

Start another "How would you advise" thread and fill in the blanks a little better. Maybe I'll have some advice you agree with!

 

We are to submit to our husbands AS UNTO THE LORD.

Yes, you had a choice. Women can say 'no' submissively if what they are being asked to do is NOT UNTO THE LORD.

True submission is NOT gritting your teeth and submitting. That is no more pleasing to God than saying NO.

A husband who would do this to his wife does not love her like Christ loved the church.

JMHO,
Sue

 

hsmom3,

Welcome to the Board!

This is so sad and I am sorry that you had to live this way. I hope and pray that life is better for you now. Are you asking because you are still in the same situation?

 

No, praise the Lord, I'm out of it now, although it ended in divorce. The reason I asked, is because I don't believe submission has been taught in the right way. In the way I was taught, you obeyed and asked no questions. I think women ought to be also taught that they have a right to submissively say "No" to certain things.

I wish someone had told me.

 

Wouldn't you be serving her better by doing what she asks, since she disagrees with you, in this particular situation instead of what YOU want to do???

JMO,
Sue

 

I've seen a lot of preferences being taught concerning this proposed situation. The reality to submission is best related to area of authority. Before you cut me off, listen.

I have the God given responsibilities of being the husband; making the "big" decisions for the family. My wife has her area of authority in the home: cleanliness, hygiene, order of behaviour, etc., but never to assume the role of slave.

I preached on "Submitting yourselves to one another". Two points in the area of submission to the position of the wife were: You don't come home and say,"What! That same old slop again?!?" You'll get the first lesson in "Frying Pan Logic 101" if you're not careful. Another is: You don't come home with your dirty workshoes on and prop them up on the coffee table, or you are just likely to have your feet kicked off the table! , again. The wife DOES have her area of authority. She is to "rule" the home, not dictate.

When it comes to major decisions effecting the home, much discussion is recommended. If for no other reason to quiet the anxieties often experienced in the seemingly drastic measure of moving to another state.

Men should always consider the counsel of a godly wife. So also the wife should be willing to follow her man to the brink of death, never involved in illegal or immoral behaviour.

For some women it is next to impossible for her to follow her husband in any matter on this magnitude, that is usually due to her unwillingness to let her husband have the God given role of the head of household.


Much counsel should ensue to assure that God get glory. ( I wish this guy had two arms upheld, to indicate his praising the LORD!)


Brother Ricky

 

The curse of "lording over" affects the church and the home.

Many miss the clear direction that GOD gives in the book of Malachi. Wives are to be viewed as PARTNERS, not slaves who obey every whim of the husband. The goal of a Godly marriage is Godly offspring.

MAL 2:13 Another thing you do: You flood the LORD's altar with tears. You weep and wail because he no longer pays attention to your offerings or accepts them with pleasure from your hands. [14] You ask, "Why?" It is because the LORD is acting as the witness between you and the wife of your youth, because you have broken faith with her, though she is your partner, the wife of your marriage covenant.

MAL 2:15 Has not the LORD made them one? In flesh and spirit they are his. And why one? Because he was seeking godly offspring. So guard yourself in your spirit, and do not break faith with the wife of your youth.

The clear teaching in Ephesians 5 about marriage is that the husband and wife are to both look to Jesus. The husband is to act like Jesus the Bridegroom in the marriage. The husband is to give his life for his wife, just as Jesus gave His life for His Bride. The wife is to act like the Bride. Both husband and wife are to look to Jesus, as they model the Bridegroom and the Bride.

"Lording over" in the home is just as great an abomination as it is in the church.


And by the way, you can't[B/] have a message icon with two arms raised here, indicating praising the Lord. This is a Baptist Board.