What young people beleive about salvation

[canadyjd]

It’s probably more prevalent than we know. It is based, I think, on what we think is “fair.”

A member of this board just argued in another thread (now closed) that those who never hear the gospel are judged according to how they respond to general revelation found in creation and if they live a “decent” life, that will be credited as righteousness before God. No amount of scripture could persuade him otherwise.

For those who hear the gospel, he argued, they will be judged on whether they accept it or reject it.

Hard to imagine

peace to you

 

[Hannahande]

This is exactly what the Satanic Human Fraternity Movement is pushing. Including Pope Francis.

What's wrong with Pope Francis? Sorry, I think I'm missing something. Is this linked to the child abuses in Vatican?

 

[xlsdraw]

What's wrong with Pope Francis? Sorry, I think I'm missing something. Is this linked to the child abuses in Vatican?

There's a multitude of things wrong with Catholicism. And Pope Francis is leading them into the antichrist "All roads lead to God" Coexistence movement known as Human Fraternity.

Human Fraternity can be easily googled.

 

[Paul from Antioch]

There's a multitude of things wrong with Catholicism. And Pope Francis is leading them into the antichrist "All roads lead to God" Coexistence movement known as Human Fraternity.

Human Fraternity can be easily googled.

Yes, WE know that (or at least we SHOULD know it!), but are we collectively doing all that we can do to such heavily-populated regions such as South Asia where, take India as an example. In this "sub continent is probably the most densely population of terra firma. We do have missionaries who've been working with some of the major people groups, but when a region as as many "minor" people groups which are bunched so closely together so as to having to share their own beds with people they don't even know & whose religion is as varied as the stars in the sky & with an economic system that thrives on keeping the largest of these people groups having to scrape around to even find enough food for only a fraction of their own large family so as to keep what little food they do find from being stolen by their unknown next bed neighbors who've only been taught that their multiplicity of so-called gods who only see these people as being punished for not doing what they don't even know, and as a consequence can't even read a small portion of their own god-less scriptures & hence are eternally damned for existing in such squalor as they've by a multitude of generations that have preceded them & thus can't read even a simple "The" in their own unknown language, I don't think needs to be confined to such a select group of "Elders." Jesus Himself rebuked His so-called know-it-all & WE-are-right-and-You-are-the-Satan-Himself-for-even-working-on-OUR-Sabbath-just-to-heal-that-blind-from-birth-and-hence-is-bearing-the-righteous-punishment-of-his-parents'-sin! How much longer we as His collective body here on earth do we have to reach the unreached because OUR Elders can't be bothered because in their self-righteous judgment think that the color of the carpet that's being offered doesn't conform to OUR tastes, so we're going to exclude you folks for even thinking (Which Jesus Himself taught that the mere thought of a sin is just as bad as actually committing that sin!!) that the current carpet can stay while WE KNOW that our judgment overrides yours, so don't let exit door hit you in the "You Know Know What"!! Selah.

 

[Van]

On the specific issue of if people deny Jesus as God? No, they are absolutely not born again.

If the person was ignorant of the teaching that Jesus is the Second Person of the Trinity, and had been duped by one of the commonly found cults denying His deity, would that disqualify the person from God accepting them just as they were? I do not know the answer, I cannot find support for either side in scripture. But certainly the command to love your God with all your heart seems to require believing Jesus is God. So I am pretty sure your view is correct, but not positive.

 

[Paul from Antioch]

If the person was ignorant of the teaching that Jesus is the Second Person of the Trinity, and had been duped by one of the commonly found cults denying His deity, would that disqualify the person from God accepting them just as they were? I do not know the answer, I cannot find support for either side in scripture. But certainly the command to love your God with all your heart seems to require believing Jesus is God. So I am pretty sure your view is correct, but not positive.

I'm POSITIVE that maybe you're right about that. Now I know why some think we Baptists are just another cult. But, wait a sec...If I say that I'm POSITIVE 'bout that, I guess maybe I should expect to read some NEGATIVE responses. Is Physics correct that electrons flow from Negative to Positive??? Musta been some wacko who mistakenly thought he was Positive 'bout that.....

 

[Reformed1689]

If the person was ignorant of the teaching that Jesus is the Second Person of the Trinity, and had been duped by one of the commonly found cults denying His deity, would that disqualify the person from God accepting them just as they were? I do not know the answer, I cannot find support for either side in scripture. But certainly the command to love your God with all your heart seems to require believing Jesus is God. So I am pretty sure your view is correct, but not positive.

I think there is a difference in not knowing the truth and flat out defying/denying the truth. I do believe one can be saved and not know Jesus is God but they will come to that realization very shortly after salvation as they study Scripture.

 

[Scarlett O.]

Another way to phrase this question, can a born anew believer hold bogus views? I believe the answer is yes. So the question devolves into would God credit the faith of someone who thought Jesus was not the only way to salvation? How could someone who is "all in" for Jesus believe Jesus was mistaken when He said He is the only way to the Father? Now if the person was simply ignorant of that teaching, that is one thing, but if they are shown the teaching and still reject it, then that is something else...

Yes, a newly born-again true believer in Jesus Christ can have some important details confused or be ignorant of them. The Holy Spirit leads and teaches and guides the new believer. . Competent preaching/teaching is vital for spiritual growth.

Case in point, the BaptistBoard: I've been here for 19 years. I've seen the following debated HOTLY for all these years:

• What the definition of election is = C vs. A [I am neither.]
• Bible versions.
• The role of husbands and wives.
• Women and pants. [Women and everything, actually]
• Politics and Christians
• Baptism's role in salvation.
• The security [or non-security] of the believer.
• Is Jesus God or God's Son or both

When opinions and/or beliefs differ to the point of heated and pointed and unresolved debate - one of the following has to be true.

• Someone in the debate is dead, dead wrong.
• Perhaps both are dead wrong.
• Perhaps both are slightly wrong.
• Perhaps one is slightly wrong.

I've seen the verbal battles go one for years and I have been guilty myself. Being wrong in these things does not make you hell-bound. It just makes you stubborn and wrong and unteachable.

But am I going to call someone unsaved if they believe on NOSAS or if they believe OSAS?

NO! Am I going to call person lost and going to hell if they haven't been discipled enough to understand that Jesus Christ is God?

NO! I was saved for several years before I grasped that understanding. I believe it with all my heart now and teach it, but when I was a babe in Christ, I understood that Jesus was God's Son - but that he was God, himself, was not taught to me.

 

[Yeshua1]

I think there is a difference in not knowing the truth and flat out defying/denying the truth. I do believe one can be saved and not know Jesus is God but they will come to that realization very shortly after salvation as they study Scripture.

Is that not though the work of the Holy Spirit to allow a sinner to now accept and know Jesus is Lord. is very God, as only that Jesus can save them?

 

[Yeshua1]

If the person was ignorant of the teaching that Jesus is the Second Person of the Trinity, and had been duped by one of the commonly found cults denying His deity, would that disqualify the person from God accepting them just as they were? I do not know the answer, I cannot find support for either side in scripture. But certainly the command to love your God with all your heart seems to require believing Jesus is God. So I am pretty sure your view is correct, but not positive.

One cannot hold to the Jesus of say the Way, Mormonism or JW and be saved!

 

[Yeshua1]

Yes, a newly born-again true believer in Jesus Christ can have some important details confused or be ignorant of them. The Holy Spirit leads and teaches and guides the new believer. . Competent preaching/teaching is vital for spiritual growth.

Case in point, the BaptistBoard: I've been here for 19 years. I've seen the following debated HOTLY for all these years:

• What the definition of election is = C vs. A [I am neither.]
• Bible versions.
• The role of husbands and wives.
• Women and pants. [Women and everything, actually]
• Politics and Christians
• Baptism's role in salvation.
• The security [or non-security] of the believer.
• Is Jesus God or God's Son or both

When opinions and/or beliefs differ to the point of heated and pointed and unresolved debate - one of the following has to be true.

• Someone in the debate is dead, dead wrong.
• Perhaps both are dead wrong.
• Perhaps both are slightly wrong.
• Perhaps one is slightly wrong.

I've seen the verbal battles go one for years and I have been guilty myself. Being wrong in these things does not make you hell-bound. It just makes you stubborn and wrong and unteachable.

But am I going to call someone unsaved if they believe on NOSAS or if they believe OSAS?

NO! Am I going to call person lost and going to hell if they haven't been discipled enough to understand that Jesus Christ is God?

NO! I was saved for several years before I grasped that understanding. I believe it with all my heart now and teach it, but when I was a babe in Christ, I understood that Jesus was God's Son - but that he was God, himself, was not taught to me.

True, but there are certain things must hold and agree with, such as deity of Jesus and His physical resurrection!

 

[Scarlett O.]

True, but there are certain things must hold and agree with, such as deity of Jesus and His physical resurrection!

But I wasn't talking about those things. The question in point was that does a person have to understand that Jesus is God, himself, to be saved.

 

[Yeshua1]

But I wasn't talking about those things. The question in point was that does a person have to understand that Jesus is God, himself, to be saved.

Yes they do, as only that Jesus can save them!

 

[Scarlett O.]

Yes they do, as only that Jesus can save them!

You and I are talking about two different things.

 

[Yeshua1]

You and I are talking about two different things.

How so?

 

[Reformed1689]

But I wasn't talking about those things. The question in point was that does a person have to understand that Jesus is God, himself, to be saved.

No, I don't think so. However, I don't think that they can intentionally DENY that Jesus is God and be saved.

 

[Scarlett O.]

How so?

When I was saved as a child I knew that Jesus was the Son of God - supernatural and miraculous. And he alone can save.

In my child's mind, there was "God in three Persons, Blessed Trinity" from the song we always sang.

I understood that there was a Trinity, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. One God - three Persons.

I understood that Father was not the Son and the Son was not the Father. That the Son was not the Spirit and the Spirit was not the Son. That the Father was not the Spirit and the Spirit was not the Father.

God - in three Persons. Blessed Trinity. I had that from the start.

What I did not understand until my 30's was that the Father is God. The Son is God. And the Spirit is God.

Preachers always called Jesus the Son of God. In my mind - he was part of the Trinity, but not actually God because I was under the impression that "God" meant "Father" only. I believed Jesus to be "part" of God as belonging to the Trinity as with the Holy Spirit.

Because I didn't firmly grasp this until I was in my 30's does NOT mean that if I died when I was in my 20's that I would have went to hell. I never denied the deity of Christ.

The question I saw that was asked was do you have to believe that Jesus IS God to be saved. I didn't understand that age 8 nor 28.

Jesus Christ being the Son of God and God at the same time is not a concept that is taught well enough. God being more than just the Father - being also the Son and the Spirit is not taught enough.

 

[Reformed1689]

Because I didn't firmly grasp this until I was in my 30's does NOT mean that if I died when I was in my 20's that I would have went to hell. I never denied the deity of Christ.

And I should have asked the original question better. You hit the nail here. It is ok to not fully grasp, it is not ok to deny. Those are definitely different scenarios.

 

[Scarlett O.]

And I should have asked the original question better. You hit the nail here. It is ok to not fully grasp, it is not ok to deny. Those are definitely different scenarios.

Correct!!

 

[Hackberry]

I have accepted Jesus as my savior. I believe in salvation and I believe in the Trinity. I expect to truly understand these things and many other things in heaven.

9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.

10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.

11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.

12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.