Whats killing churches?

[Iconoclast]

http://theaquilareport.com/index.ph...f-your-church-&catid=79:commentary&Itemid=137

This looked interesting...what do you think???

What do you see as the top two or three factors that could contribute to this kind of decline,and why?

 

[mont974x4]

We have lost our awe of God and do not revere Him or His Word.

 

[saturneptune]

What is killing the modern day local church is gossip, pride, lack of visitation, laziness in doing the work of the Lord, and a mind set of a social club. Also, for smaller churches, the inability to provide entertainment for kids. This says more about us than a lost world. Also, a lost world observes the way in which we live.

 

[Jon-Marc]

Lukewarmness is another cause--along with allowing unscriptural teachings into churches.

 

[Crabtownboy]

Narrow mindedness.
Arrogance.
Intolerance.
Nationalism being confused with Christianity.
The confusion of culture with Christianity.

I agree with the other negatives mentioned.

 

[Iconoclast]

12. Churched: By their second generation many congregations are composed of people who come from a churched culture and do not understand the unchurched culture. Even if they became professing Christian during the past generation, they may have lost the perspective of the unchurched.

15. Dull: Congregations can get stuck in place, lack innovation and creativity, and simply become dull. There is no excitement, glitter or pizzazz. As such they are unattractive to new people, and do not inspire existing participants to do more than to go through the motions of being and doing Church.

17. Management: When a congregation is beyond its first generation of life, and is not empowered by vision, a vacuum is created into which a management mindset settles in. These management people have the good of the church at heart, but forget a church is an organism and not an organization.

20. Anxiety: Long-term, older members confuse Christ and the culture of congregations to the extent they may believe allowing congregations to change in any radical manner may deny the presence and direction of God. They fear it may even impact their personal eternity in a negative way.


If a church has a combination of these factors at the same time...it can be deadly.

 

[Yeshua1]

http://theaquilareport.com/index.ph...f-your-church-&catid=79:commentary&Itemid=137

This looked interesting...what do you think???

What do you see as the top two or three factors that could contribute to this kind of decline,and why?

In trying to appeal to our postmodern culture so hard, we have ended up redefining the truths of christianity and have a new version , with different gospel and jesus some times!

Just ask Joel Olsteen and Robb bell!

 

[asterisktom]

http://theaquilareport.com/index.ph...f-your-church-&catid=79:commentary&Itemid=137

This looked interesting...what do you think???

What do you see as the top two or three factors that could contribute to this kind of decline,and why?

The issue is a real one, but I don't think this article really comes to grip with it. In fact, the more I read this article, the less I understood. Reading it aloud to my wife, she commented that it sounded like Rick Warren (Stay tuned as I detail THE PLAN that will save our churches).

There seemed to also be a trendy vagueness in much of the phraseology.

"The ideal is that following the first generation of life, congregations will re-envision their future continually and effectively live into that vision as FaithSoaring Churches. However, that is an ideal realized by less than 20 percent of congregations at any given time."

Hmm. How does he arrive at that statistic? And just what exactly is "FaithSoaring"?

Also - and this may be more to the point of what you were asking, Iconoclast - I think the author is overvaluing "vitality" over wisdom. This is why he makes his unwarranted leap of logic from physical weakening of individuals to corporate spiritual weakening of churches. Overlooked is the fact that, as believers mature in the faith (and, necessarily, get older), they offer more and more to the local assembly.

He is also overlooking (at least in this first article) the church just being what a church should be - preaching, teaching, living the Word that gives life - to churches and individuals.

But the question is a good one. Like someone else has said, we are trying too hard to coax people to our churches, using trendy programs and questionable methods. And we are reaping the result. We try to entice young people into the fold, but often to the neglect of the mature members who are already present. As the church becomes statistically younger they also become less seasoned in outlook.

They gain in "vitality".
They lose in maturity.

One reason also is that the church has lost sight of just how unique it is. They try to hard to be what other groups can do much better: a social club with merely horizontal agendas.

 

[psalms109:31]

http://www.spurgeon.org/sermons/0264.htm

"There is King Jesus marching at the head of his troops; and can it be that some of you, who profess to be his followers, are on the other side; that professing to be Christ's you are lighting in the ranks of the enemy—carrying the baggage of Satan and wearing the uniform of hell, when you profess to be soldiers of Christ? I know there are such here: God forgive them! God spare them; and may the deserters yet come back, even though they come back in the chains of conviction! May they come back and be saved! O brethren and sisters, there are enough to destroy souls without us—enough to extend the kingdom of Satan without our helping him. "Come out from among them; touch not the unclean thing; be ye separate." Church of God! awake, awake, awake to the salvation of men! Sleep no longer, begin to pray, to wrestle, to travail in birth; be more holy, more consistent, more strict, more solemn in thy deportment! Begin, O soldiers of Christ, to be more true to your colors, and as surely as the time shall come when the church shall thus be reformed and revived, to surely shall the King come into our midst, and we shall march on to certain victory, trampling down our enemies, and getting to our King many crowns, through many victories achieved."

C. H. Spurgeon

I do believe people who are coming to Jesus want to change and be better people and want to know how. Should they be coming to Christ Jesus to be the same as before? I pray that we learn righteousness in and through Christ and not to become self-righteous.

Hebrews 5:
Warning Against Falling Away
11 We have much to say about this, but it is hard to make it clear to you because you no longer try to understand. 12 In fact, though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you the elementary truths of God’s word all over again. You need milk, not solid food! 13 Anyone who lives on milk, being still an infant, is not acquainted with the teaching about righteousness. 14 But solid food is for the mature, who by constant use have trained themselves to distinguish good from evil.

 

[convicted1]

I'll tell you what's killing our churches, unsound doctrine. Now, I am not saying any of yall's churches are guilty of this but here's some other things.

1.) Begging people to come to an altar to find Jesus(when it's Jesus who finds us, He was never lost to begin with), while the 30 repeat verses of "Just as I am" is being sung.

2.) Taking repentance out of the salvation equation.

3.) This "repeat after me" incantation, and viola', you're saved easybelievism.

4.) When they find someone in the wrong, they don't confront them as charged in Matthew 18. They let these who have a "form of godliness, but deny the power thereof" tear a church apart.

 

[fortytworc]

http://theaquilareport.com/index.ph...f-your-church-&catid=79:commentary&Itemid=137

This looked interesting...what do you think???

What do you see as the top two or three factors that could contribute to this kind of decline,and why?

It's difficult to pick the top two or three. I can't do it. Mr. Bullard explained things much better than I can, but it seems to be part of human nature. I've called this process 'The Pile of Rocks Syndrome'. It is thousands of years old. We can see it happen way back when God would do something in or with His people. He would tell them to make an alter or to stack rocks up as a means of remembering and passing on to future generations "The Mighty Deed" that God had done. Sooner than later the alters and memorials meant nothing. 'Just A Pile of Rocks'

 

[thomas15]

.... Reading it aloud to my wife, she commented that it sounded like Rick Warren (Stay tuned as I detail THE PLAN that will save our churches).

Every now and then you say something that I can agree with without reservation. I would only add that the Church has 1. forgotten it's mission (to spread the Gospel and make disciples) and 2. we have lost interest in the imminent return of the Lord Jesus for his Church.

 

[saturneptune]

4.) When they find someone in the wrong, they don't confront them as charged in Matthew 18. They let these who have a "form of godliness, but deny the power thereof" tear a church apart.

I think the best example I have ever seen in a church was at a pot luck, when someone was stuffing their face so fast, that one could hardly understand what they were saying. When it became clear what he was saying, he was spreading gossip about the life style of a member who had not attended in a while.

 

[Iconoclast]

Tom,

Also - and this may be more to the point of what you were asking, Iconoclast - I think the author is overvaluing "vitality" over wisdom. This is why he makes his unwarranted leap of logic from physical weakening of individuals to corporate spiritual weakening of churches. Overlooked is the fact that, as believers mature in the faith (and, necessarily, get older), they offer more and more to the local assembly.

He is also overlooking (at least in this first article) the church just being what a church should be - preaching, teaching, living the Word that gives life - to churches and individuals.

But the question is a good one. Like someone else has said, we are trying too hard to coax people to our churches, using trendy programs and questionable methods. And we are reaping the result. We try to entice young people into the fold, but often to the neglect of the mature members who are already present. As the church becomes statistically younger they also become less seasoned in outlook.

They gain in "vitality".
They lose in maturity.

One reason also is that the church has lost sight of just how unique it is. They try to hard to be what other groups can do much better: a social club with merely horizontal agendas.

:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

I think it is difficult to put a handle on,and it is fashionable to find fault, more than find what is good. I thought although a bit vague, it could be helpful more as a checklist to make sure we do not slip into these poor qualities.

He is also overlooking (at least in this first article) the church just being what a church should be - preaching, teaching, living the Word that gives life - to churches and individuals

This in large part would be the anecdote.

 

[Iconoclast]

It's difficult to pick the top two or three. I can't do it. Mr. Bullard explained things much better than I can, but it seems to be part of human nature. I've called this process 'The Pile of Rocks Syndrome'. It is thousands of years old. We can see it happen way back when God would do something in or with His people. He would tell them to make an alter or to stack rocks up as a means of remembering and passing on to future generations "The Mighty Deed" that God had done. Sooner than later the alters and memorials meant nothing. 'Just A Pile of Rocks'

Yes....the suceeding generations lose some of the original intent,unless there is biblically solid discipleship taking place, accompanied by the Spirit working in the new members.

 

[Iconoclast]

I think the best example I have ever seen in a church was at a pot luck, when someone was stuffing their face so fast, that one could hardly understand what they were saying. When it became clear what he was saying, he was spreading gossip about the life style of a member who had not attended in a while.

Yes...he probably trampled a few members to get to the food in the first place,before the gossip could ooze forth from his lips...not good for edification:thumbsup:

 

[Iconoclast]

http://www.spurgeon.org/sermons/0264.htm

"There is King Jesus marching at the head of his troops; and can it be that some of you, who profess to be his followers, are on the other side; that professing to be Christ's you are lighting in the ranks of the enemy—carrying the baggage of Satan and wearing the uniform of hell, when you profess to be soldiers of Christ? I know there are such here: God forgive them! God spare them; and may the deserters yet come back, even though they come back in the chains of conviction! May they come back and be saved! O brethren and sisters, there are enough to destroy souls without us—enough to extend the kingdom of Satan without our helping him. "Come out from among them; touch not the unclean thing; be ye separate." Church of God! awake, awake, awake to the salvation of men! Sleep no longer, begin to pray, to wrestle, to travail in birth; be more holy, more consistent, more strict, more solemn in thy deportment! Begin, O soldiers of Christ, to be more true to your colors, and as surely as the time shall come when the church shall thus be reformed and revived, to surely shall the King come into our midst, and we shall march on to certain victory, trampling down our enemies, and getting to our King many crowns, through many victories achieved."

C. H. Spurgeon

I do believe people who are coming to Jesus want to change and be better people and want to know how. Should they be coming to Christ Jesus to be the same as before? I pray that we learn righteousness in and through Christ and not to become self-righteous.

Hebrews 5:
Warning Against Falling Away
11 We have much to say about this, but it is hard to make it clear to you because you no longer try to understand. 12 In fact, though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you the elementary truths of God’s word all over again. You need milk, not solid food! 13 Anyone who lives on milk, being still an infant, is not acquainted with the teaching about righteousness. 14 But solid food is for the mature, who by constant use have trained themselves to distinguish good from evil.

Good quote!:thumbsup::thumbsup:

JM-

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Lukewarmness is another cause--along with allowing unscriptural teachings into churches.