Whats the big deal here anyway?

You'll have to ask a Catholic. Grace can be given and conferred, but I really don't like the term "activated". I activate my VCR by pushing certain buttons. I activate my blender by pushing its buttons. I don't activate God's grace by knowing which buttons to push.

The point is that other Baptists have said that we are not saved by anything we do - yet "confessing" is something we do, is it not?

"clearly"? Then there would be no debate. I think the Bible says we are not justified by works ONLY, and that faith is definitely needed. But the Bible also says that we are not justified by faith only, and that works are definitely needed. Without one, the other is dead.

 

I see you are bothered by this ''works vs. faith'' topic, Brian.

Let's suppose it was a Catholic who first accused us of performing the
''works'' of believing and confessing.

Rest assured that they are not works. If they are, Jesus would not have told
us to do as Romans 10 says.

Rom 10:13 also says " For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord
shall be saved".

It's easy, Brian...don't make it hard.

 

No, not bothered at all.

I think this is getting off-topic though, I like to see some more discussion about trying2understand's original question.

So one just has to "call upon the name of the Lord"? No faith, no grace, no repentance, no belief, no works, no love, no understanding of who Christ is? Just call out his name?

 

It says what it says, Brian; I didn't write the book, I just shared the quote.

Basically, to call, confess, believe, pray etc. is our obligation to God.

Then it becomes His obligation to fulfill His promise to give the Holy Spirit
to those whom He will. I doubt He will turn us away and we are assured
through His word that we accept (faith) that He will accomplish what He
has promised.

Thus...........we are saved !

God Bless

 

I know we kinda got of the subject, but Its hard for me to continue to see these people take this ONE scripture so out of context that it's killing me.

Why don't you guys share the Whole passage with ALL its meaning?

What about vs 14-15

"How, then, can they call on the one they have not BELIEVED in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them? AND HOW CAN THEY PREACH UNLESS THEY ARE SENT? As it is written, "How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!"

All the apostles were taught the "GOOD NEWS" of the gospels and its meaning. And they were all sent with the Same messages from Christ (Matthew 28:18-20 & Mark 16:15-20.) Paul is not attemtpting to lay the foundations of elementry teaching reguarding salvation all over again (Hebrews 6:1-3), but to call people BACK to JESUS from others that were TEACHING A DIFFERENT GOSPEL. This entire letter is addressed to Christians that were being lead astray to the "Gospel" of Moses.


PEOPLE, C'MON, GET REAL! THERE ARE MORE TEACHINGS OF THE COMPLETE GOSPEL THAN WHAT YOU THINK YOUR READING IN ROMANS 10:9

Who was sent to preach? The Apostles and they ALL preached the same thing regarding salvation.

Everyone in the bible that were "Saved" after Jesus' death where:

Taught the truth
Believed the truth
Repented because of the truth
Confessed Jesus
Biptized into His BODY and saved.
All acted in faith.

ITS THAT SIMPLE. NO MORE NO LESS!

 

Actually, Brian, look at people who strive to please God.
They are constantly looking for a better way or an original way to
please Him. Christ already did that. If one is concerned that
confessing and believing may be wrong, then what is to be said
for other works that are more obvious. That's why we have a big
migration of believers from one church to another; or those who are
always looking for a church that is ''more right'' or ''older'' than another.

Those people are looking to please God in some act of their worship, habit etc.
and they will NEVER appease God. We ALL have sinned and their changing
churches doesn't help matters at all.

Peace cometh by what, Brian ?

 

Sure, let's not be concerned with truth and our efforts to understand and defend it.

While we are at it, let's sin all we want to so we get more grace. Hold on, didn't Paul say something on this subject somewhere?

Yes, repentance is vitally important for salvation. However, repentance is not how sorry you feel about something. You can feel very sorry without repenting.

Faith is the stand alone in our justification before God. Works are our justification before men. After all, how can you believe that someone is saved if their life shows absolutely no such evidence?

It is clear that all believers are to be conformed to the image of Christ (Rom. 8:29). That is the reason non-salvific issues are important. Equally clear, good works have a very big part in the life of the believer. They are a testimony to others and even to ourself of our salvation. It is clear that God desires good works in the life of the believer (Eph. 2:10, the verse many Baptists forget about ). Our justification before God has nothing to do with our works. However, good works play a major role in our sanctification.

I am not going to get into a long debate here. I am not personally comfortable with the prayer and steps that the BB has posted, but this is not my board. I would not use that method, because like you, I am very concerned about repentance. That's why many who go around saying they are saved truly need to examine and see if they are in the faith (2 Cor. 13:5), because many show absolutely no evidence of a true saving faith in the Lord Jesus Christ.

God Bless and May He Receive All the Glory!
Neal

 

Wow, I didn't know I had to make all these decisions!

I wouldn't call it a false gospel so much as I feel that it is an incomplete gospel. Leaving out repentance is a very big omission, IMHO. However, much of the concern you raise, I feel I answered in my last post. And by the way, I do believe in OSAS, but I definitely would not be comfortable with using the BB method. But again, this is not my board, so you will have to bring that up with them if you want more answers.

God Be Glorified!
Neal

 

A FALSE gospel and Taking from the Complete GOSPEL of Christ

 

"First steps" are always small and often shaky, but they are absolutely essential to taking the second and subsequent steps! That simple prayer is but the "first step" in response to Jesus' invitation to believe in Him. It is that first step that enables all subsequent steps including the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, the confession of sin, repentance from sin, and the strengthening of faith through study of God's word, and the "making of disciples" that only those who take that first step can do.

The exact words of that first step need not be what you posted either, it can be as simple as, "God, I'm lost, Save me!" Which implies, "I recognize that I am a sinner...etc."

The criticism of the doctrines, practices and traditions of mainline religions, and cultic religions, are seldom if ever engaged in by "first step-ers", They are busy learning the truth from God's Holy Word, so well preserved by the Holy Spirit through the Catholic Church.

Though there are many zealots that engage in such criticism of other factions of Christianity, it does require spiritual discernment to see the falsehoods that manifest themselves in mainline religions. Those who are heavily ensconced in those mainline denominations and factions of the church seldom, if ever, recognize the fallacies contained within their particular denomination of faction.

 

Keep in mind the purpose of that page. It is NOT meant to replace the Bible

BTW, I stand by the contents of the page

 

First steps?

This thing says that doing this assures that you will go to heaven the instant you die.

Second and essential steps?

Supposedly the "first steps" got you saved and in heaven. What is more essential than that? </font>[/QUOTE]Jesus said "whosoever believeth in Him shall not perish but have everlasting life", and that is true. However the letters to the churches contained in Revelation, warn against falling away, and against losing faith (first loves, etc.) Those letters are a warning that it is possible to have your name blotted from the book of Life.

Come the judgment:

One will not be judged by one's sins, Jesus paid the penalty already.

One will not be judged by one's works, for no amount of human effort has ever saved even one human.

That leaves your individual faith condition alone as the basis of judgment. If you retain your faith in God, you are not judged at all, but if you have lost your faith you are condemned by your lack of faith. Those are the words of Jesus who is the Son of God, the Messiah. (John 3:18)

So the second and subsequent steps after one confesses Jesus, are the strengthening and nourishment of our faith so that it remains strong in us. It is then that we are able to perform the the follow-on steps such as doing the works that receive rewards in Heaven given by Jesus. It is with a strong faith that we are able to be the workers in the fields that are "white unto harvest". It is with a strong faith that we are able to withstand the "wiles of the devil". It is with a strong faith that we produce the fruits of the Spirit. It is with strong faith that we face the end of our natural lives with the confidence that we are acceptable before the throne of God, and that we need not fear the second death which is being cast into the lake of fire, the place where those without faith are cast.

True, the first step does truly mark us for salvation with the mark of believing in Jesus. But, it is what we do with that believing that determines whether or not we retain it to the end of our natural lives. Leaving with faith in Jesus is the Key to heaven, it is faith in Jesus that excludes us from eternal judgment and being cast into the lake of fire. The second and subsequent steps are taken in obedience to the object of faith we express with that "first step".

 

...*rubs my eyes*

I have yet to see someone actually state that they truly believe OSAS and then, when explaining, continue to say they believe it. Every one of the explanations talks about "holding fast" to the face, lest you "lose it" and some such things.

I see no absolute, unending assurance. In fact, these explanations are logical contradictions.

Please, you just added to "faith alone" in order to "persevere to the end." Cause if you don't have it at the end of your natural life, you must have fallen away. So you only thought you were saved, or you lost your salvation. Either way, there is no assurance.

 

I see. Yes, it all makes sense when you define that the above are "not" works, but Catholic devotions "are" works. It's always so easy when you redefine others definitions!

 

Wow, I didn't know I had to make all these decisions!

I wouldn't call it a false gospel so much as I feel that it is an incomplete gospel. Leaving out repentance is a very big omission, IMHO. However, much of the concern you raise, I feel I answered in my last post. And by the way, I do believe in OSAS, but I definitely would not be comfortable with using the BB method. But again, this is not my board, so you will have to bring that up with them if you want more answers.

God Be Glorified!
Neal </font>[/QUOTE]So Reprentance + Faith = Salvation. Gotcha.

 

john6:63, no I believe you are missing the point. The fact is that there is no biblical precedent for the "sinner's prayer" or altar calls. You can read all you want into Romans 10:9 but evangelicals should and many have discarded such inventions of men for the sake of biblical Christianity.