What's the difference between Fred and Frank?

[Skandelon]

So man has some natural spiritualness in him? Total doesn't mean that you are as evil as you can be, but that every part of your being is affected by sin. You don't have any natural spiritual ability. You are spiritually dead.

James 1 teach us, "13 When tempted, no one should say, "God is tempting me." For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone; 14 but each one is tempted when, by his own evil desire, he is dragged away and enticed. 15 Then, after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death. 16 Don't be deceived, my dear brothers. 17 Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows. 18 He chose to give us birth through the word of truth, that we might be a kind of firstfruits of all he created."

Notice two things this verse clearly teaches. That this "death" you speak of is not necessarily something from birth, but something like hardening that comes "when sin is full-grown." And notice the means God has chosen to give new birth..."the word of truth." The words Jesus spoke were spirit and life, so to presume that these words are somehow insufficient to bring life is unfounded scripturally.

 

[jbh28]

James 1 teach us, "13 When tempted, no one should say, "God is tempting me." For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone; 14 but each one is tempted when, by his own evil desire, he is dragged away and enticed. 15 Then, after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death. 16 Don't be deceived, my dear brothers. 17 Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows. 18 He chose to give us birth through the word of truth, that we might be a kind of firstfruits of all he created."

Notice two things this verse clearly teaches. That this "death" you speak of is not necessarily something from birth, but something like hardening that comes "when sin is full-grown." And notice the means God has chosen to give new birth..."the word of truth." The words Jesus spoke were spirit and life, so to presume that these words are somehow insufficient to bring life is unfounded scripturally.

the "death" here and the "death" in Ephesians 2 isn't the same thing. This passage isn't saying that one has spirituality in him before he is tempted and then the spirituality goes away.

 

[Skandelon]

the "death" here and the "death" in Ephesians 2 isn't the same thing.

What about the death in Romans 6 where it says we as believers are dead to sin? I guess that must mean we can't sin? It must if your consistent with your analogies.

There is nothing which suggests there is any real difference in these views of "death." Plus, even if we concede the death is "from birth" what is to say that the very words, which are life and spirit are somehow insufficient to bring men to life?

The phrase "you are dead to me" like a father might say to his estranged son is more in line with what scripture teaches. A message sent for the purpose of bringing reconciliation (between the son who is an enemy of the Father) certainly has the ability to accomplish that very purpose. There is nothing in scripture which teaches otherwise.

This passage isn't saying that one has spirituality in him before he is tempted and then the spirituality goes away.

I'm not attempting to say there is. I'm saying that the words are "spirit" and "life" and thus are the means God uses to bring life spiritually to those otherwise "dead" men. Scripture says, "The truth shall set you free," not "the truth can't set you free unless you have first been set free."

 

[Martin Marprelate]

Hello Skandelon,
I wrote

John 12:39-41 does not help you either.

Therefore they could not believe, because Isaiah said again: "He has blinded their eyes and hardened their hearts, lest they should see with their eyes, lest they should understand with their hearts and turn, So that I should heal them."

Satan has blinded unbelievers and hardened their hearts, so that they cannot believe.

And you replied

Actually, "HE" in this verse is referring to God, not Satan.

Not if you compare Scripture with Scripture.

2Cor 4:4. 'Whose minds the god of this age has blinded, who do not believe lest the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ......should shine upon them.'

The 'god of this age' can surely only be Satan.

Steve

 

[Skandelon]

Steve,

I'm not following your reasoning. Are you denying that "He" in John 12:39 is in reference to God? If so, are there some scholars (commentaries) you can refer me to that agree with this assessment?