What's the point of Jesus dying for everyone?

See post #153

 

I'm curious, how do we know what's in God's mind? How can finite beings understand an infinite God?
You seem to be arguing from a time element. You are binding God's omniscience to a particular point in time. God is omnipresent, and not bound to time.

 

You are still stating that what God knows...God decrees. This is false. God knows a child gets raped and murdered. God's foreknowledge / omnisciense didn't cause that to happen.

You are still arguing from a time element. We don't know how God chooses to work within time. Christ chose not to know the day or the hour. Why? He's God...He omniscient...He should know, but somehow He didn't. We can't know why or how this happened.

This is a strawman because we don't know God's view, or how He works 100%.

 

If you don't know God's view or how He works 100%, then how do you know God's foreknowledge/omniscience didn't cause that to happen?

 

Because God doesn't cause people to sin. How in the world can anybody say that a Holy and righteous God who commands us NOT to sin, would actually cause us to sin??????? :BangHead:

 

webdog.

Welcome to theTwilight Zone.

Then salvation is not truly possible from God's view because He infallibly knows man B will not accept Him.

Why did Jesus suffer the punishment for those God knew would go to Hell?
It's not a matter of anything but justice is it? Are you saying there might be a different reality where it is just two punish two individuals for the one's crimes?

If you think it that then you must pray for God to give you understanding because it is not a strawman by a long way. It is a logical summary of your illogical opinions.

john.

 

Better still...

Now, what do you suppose the Father's will was? That Jesus would go skipping through a field of daisies? That's the cup Jesus asked to pass from Him? No, it was the Father's will that his own Son be tortured and put to death in a cruel and horrible way. We happen to see the good that came from that. We do not necessarily know what good can come from other horrific events, but since "not even a sparrow falls to the ground apart from His will", you can be certain that it happened according to God's will and according to His good purpose.

I'm done discussing things with you, Amy. I hope someday you'll put down the Warm and Fuzzy Version of the Bible and read what's actually there.

 

And that is your opinion. :laugh:

 

Amy.

Nothing.

Then it is you that does not take scripture at face value as there is no other meaning to hate than to detest. And you change scripture to your own harm. God hates Esau. God detests Esau. to hate, pursue with hatred, detest
to be hated, detested
http://www.studylight.org/desk/view.cgi?number=3404

You have checked it out yourself and you know it does not mean love less.

That's right.

That's right but why don't you use his definition of the word? It means to detest doesn't it? Why do you change the definition into loved less? Hate means hate. Why do you do this?

2SA 16:11 David then said to Abishai and all his officials, "My son, who is of my own flesh, is trying to take my life. How much more, then, this Benjamite! Leave him alone; let him curse, for the LORD has told him to. 12 It may be that the LORD will see my distress and repay me with good for the cursing I am receiving today."

God does as He pleases, He is Sovereign.

EX 4:21 The LORD said to Moses, "When you return to Egypt, see that you perform before Pharaoh all the wonders I have given you the power to do. But I will harden his heart so that he will not let the people go.

You are unscriptural. He not only gets people to sin but He also punishes them for it. RO 9:19 One of you will say to me: "Then why does God still blame us? For who resists his will?"

Romans 9:19 is a question you need to ask.

john.

 

Forknowledge means that He KNEW BEFOREHAND what would happen. God has always worked within time and through people to work His will. That does NOT mean that it has ever been God's will for people to sin, only that He knows they will. His purpose was not that people would commit the sin of murdering Jesus, but knowing they would, used that as a means to accomplish His will for Christ to be the sacrifice and atonement for all that would come to Him.

 

Stuff like this makes me sick.


And John, my strong's DOES have "loves less" as part of the definition. Jesus did not say we are to detest our parents.

 

You are unscriptural. He not only gets people to sin but He also punishes them for it.

What? You are unscriptural or that God is The Despot?

Yes I know. I suppose you don't like the idea that all those people have gone to Hell just for my good so that I can worship God with the right respect and thankfulness either? Rom 9:22-24. Those who He prepared in advance for glory is the sweetest sound I've ever heard. Those He prepared for destruction are not my problem even if you think they are yours.

He tells us in black and white that He swore on oath that no atonement would be given to Eli's house yet you believe He atoned for every man that ever lived, you oppose my Father. 1 Sam 3:14.

What has love to do with Hell Amy? I will check Strong out on this definition.

john.

 

I'm sure you feel very special, John.

 

Now, this could be a really interesting discussion. As Webdog pointed out, Jesus did not know the day or hour, only the Father did.

What if, when it comes to who will accept salvation, that only the Father knows, and not the Son (who is also the judge)?

 

God loves me Amy I do feel very special. Don't you?

john.