What's With All These Clueless Christians?

[Crabtownboy]

Clueless

It is obvious you have no clue what gets preached in the average church.

Me thinks a toe has been stepped on.

Funny, as I have grown older and how the more seriously I take Christ's teachings and talk about them the more often I am called a Liberal. Guess I am in good company if Jesus teachings are followed regardless if I am called liberal, conservative, moderate or just crazy.

:wavey:

 

[saturneptune]

Me thinks a toe has been stepped on.

Funny, as I have grown older and how the more seriously I take Christ's teachings and talk about them the more often I am called a Liberal. Guess I am in good company if Jesus teachings are followed regardless if I am called liberal, conservative, moderate or just crazy.

:wavey:

Do yourself a favor, and don't worry about the Rev Mitchell's comments. They are designed to inflame.

 

[Crabtownboy]

Clueless

Do yourself a favor, and don't worry about the Rev Mitchell's comments. They are designed in inflame.

Oh I do not let comments like his bother me. I have read a number of his postings and pretty well know where he is coming from. It is the "same-old same-old" confusion of culture and Christianity that far too many hold dear. We must remember that it was the religious fundamentalists of His day.

It would be amusing if it were not so sad that so many lift Paul's words out of context so they can avoide the hard teachings of Christ and really deal with the poor, the homeless, the sick, the needy, etc. Too many walk by on the other side of the road, after all they need to get to a deacons meeting, or a meeting of ministers or some other important church function.

Perhaps that is why so many are Calvinists for ignoring those in real need. After all God preordianed it. To me that is one of the great heresies of our time.

 

[Revmitchell]

Me thinks a toe has been stepped on.

Funny, as I have grown older and how the more seriously I take Christ's teachings and talk about them the more often I am called a Liberal. Guess I am in good company if Jesus teachings are followed regardless if I am called liberal, conservative, moderate or just crazy.

:wavey:

You can't reach my toes. However drawing conclusions from coversations on chat rooms about what is preached in the average church has a credibility problem.

 

[Revmitchell]

Oh I do not let comments like his bother me. I have read a number of his postings and pretty well know where he is coming from. It is the "same-old same-old" confusion of culture and Christianity that far too many hold dear. We must remember that it was the religious fundamentalists of His day.

It would be amusing if it were not so sad that so many lift Paul's words out of context so they can avoide the hard teachings of Christ and really deal with the poor, the homeless, the sick, the needy, etc. Too many walk by on the other side of the road, after all they need to get to a deacons meeting, or a meeting of ministers or some other important church function.

Perhaps that is why so many are Calvinists for ignoring those in real need. After all God preordianed it. To me that is one of the great heresies of our time.

More liberal rhetoric with no foundation.

 

[Baptist Believer]

However drawing conclusions from coversations on chat rooms about what is preached in the average church has a credibility problem.

Well I've been in Baptist churches throughout the United States for more than 40 years (and have been a believer for nearly 30 of those years), and I can vouch for his characterization.

You must be very fortunate to have never experienced the mainstream of fundamental/conservative/moderate/liberal Baptist life.

 

[Crabtownboy]

You can't reach my toes. However drawing conclusions from coversations on chat rooms about what is preached in the average church has a credibility problem.

Well Revmitch, my guess is that I have been in a wider variety of churches in more countries than most people [This is not a boast, just a statement of fact.] and I frequent Christian chat rooms, and watch this Christian chat board and I do not see the hard lessons of Christ being preached often nor written about often.

[I figure you were gonna ask what countries .... China, Russia, Czech Republic, . In retirement God has opened doors that I was not even looking for and I have worked as a volunteer in each of these countries, in seminaries in Russia and the Czech Republic. Meeting Christians from all over Central and Eastern Europe has been most interesting and educational. Years ago I promised God that if a door opened I'd walk through it and I must say some very interesting doors have opened.]

Just out of curiousity, how long has it been since you:

Served soup and bread in a soup kitchen for the homeless?

Worked as a volunteer in a free health clinic helping those who do not have insurance?

Worked as a volunteer in a hospital?

Worked in a food back?

I believe you get my drift. How often have you encouraged your church members to do the above. If you have done these things, and have encouraged others than you have my congratulations.:tonofbricks:

 

[Revmitchell]

Well Revmitch, my guess is that I have been in a wider variety of churches in more countries than most people [This is not a boast, just a statement of fact.] and I frequent Christian chat rooms, and watch this Christian chat board and I do not see the hard lessons of Christ being preached often nor written about often.

[I figure you were gonna ask what countries .... China, Russia, Czech Republic, . In retirement God has opened doors that I was not even looking for and I have worked as a volunteer in each of these countries, in seminaries in Russia and the Czech Republic. Meeting Christians from all over Central and Eastern Europe has been most interesting and educational. Years ago I promised God that if a door opened I'd walk through it and I must say some very interesting doors have opened.]

Just out of curiousity, how long has it been since you:

Served soup and bread in a soup kitchen for the homeless?

Worked as a volunteer in a free health clinic helping those who do not have insurance?

Worked as a volunteer in a hospital?

Worked in a food back?

I believe you get my drift. How often have you encouraged your church members to do the above. If you have done these things, and have encouraged others than you have my congratulations.:tonofbricks:

I have never seen a conservative church that did not do those things. See we do not need to believe in an unbiblical social gospel that says we need to make the world a better place. We do those things that God and God alone may get the glory. Making this world better is not part of the gospel Christ preached.

 

[Baptist Believer]

I have never seen a conservative church that did not do those things.

That's quite amazing. Most churches I have known do not do these things.

See we do not need to believe in an unbiblical social gospel that says we need to make the world a better place.

He did not claim a "social gospel" position. He pointed out that Jesus taught that we should minister to one another. Trying to paint his position as a historical "social gospel" position (as we had in the United States -- he's not from the U.S.) is patently unfair.

We do those things that God and God alone may get the glory.

He never claimed otherwise. You're blowing smoke.

Making this world better is not part of the gospel Christ preached.

Really? We are not to be lights in the world? We are not to minister to those in need? We are not to relieve suffering? We are not to feed the poor? We are not to visit those in prison? We are not called to serve our neighbors? We are not called to be ambassadors of Christ, teaching people how to live in a way that redeems those trapped in sin?

I think you need to study the teaching of Jesus a little more carefully.

 

[Crabtownboy]

I didn't ask if conservative churches do these things that Christ commanded. Actually I know of none that do and when I work as a volunteer in these places I do not find fundamentalists or conservatives churches willing to help ... and they have been approached in our area. But, let's say they do in Revmitch's area.

My question was when was the last time Revmitch worked as a volunteer in one of these places, or when he last preached a sermon on the needs of the poor, the sick, the druggies, the prostitutes, etc.

Surely Christ wants us to make the world a better place. If we are not than we are less than a social club.:tonofbricks:

 

[Magnetic Poles]

Perhaps RM, you need to do a little less posting & pontificating online, and spend a bit more time studying the scriptures without your political filters on your eyes. But of course, that won't happen, will it?

 

[Dagwood]

I have never seen a conservative church that did not do those things. See we do not need to believe in an unbiblical social gospel that says we need to make the world a better place. We do those things that God and God alone may get the glory. Making this world better is not part of the gospel Christ preached.

Wow! What an indictment!

I came out of this type of church background for these exact same reasons. I'm sure glad I left!

 

[rbell]

this thread oughta be closed. It started out rock bottom and has continued to dig. I should have not responded as I did earlier. Sorry to have insulted you, poncho, and sorry to have led this thread south.

 

[Alcott]

I do not know if you are clergy or not.

I sure ain't, bud. Now you know.

And, yes if a person has some problem, or difficulty in reconciling something Paul wrote with something Christ said, than I believe they should side with Christ until they can reconcile the difficulty.

Alright, we'll try another one and you make the call... Sure, Jesus said to feed the hungry, and Paul said in I Thessalonians 3 that anyone who does not work should not eat, referring to those who are refusing to work and living 'unruly' lives. Should we feed those who refuse to work and spend their days making trouble, or not? Or does that only apply to the community of believers; in which case we would be refusing to help 'our own' the way we help others?

 

[sag38]

I keep hearing about the hard teachings of Jesus in this thread. So, what are these hard teachings of Jesus that we conservative Baptists are ignoring?

 

[annsni]

I find the sweeping generalizations that are being given that NO Christian church does any of this stuff is offensive. Right now, we have 15 men and women in the dump in Managua, Nicaragua teaching the teachers at a school how to effectively teach the students there. Our vacation Bible school students raised enough money to feed the 300 children who are there one meal a day for a year. The next place we will be sending a team is Cuba where we are building a seminary and ministering to the locals there. We have a missionary who was sent from our church who started the first Christian hospital in the Congo - and has almost lost his life numerous times in doing this.

Locally, we started a crisis pregnancy center that meets the needs of hundreds and hundreds of women a year. We provide food and assistance to many. We have sent ministers into the group homes where the disabled are so that they can hear about Christ - and we have an entire ministry dedicated to them. We have taken our youth group into New York City to feed the homeless and to bring coats - hey, we've even made up lunches and driven around giving them to the homeless - along with giving them a small Bible.

These are just a few of the things that our church has done. In addition, we've worked with other churches in ministry to those in need. Most of all, we're looking to not just meet their physical needs but their spiritual needs. They need the Lord.

So, yes, I find it very offensive that you would just sweep a broad stroke saying that churches don't do these things. Unless you know each of our churches and all of the things that are done in public and the even MORE things that are done in private, then please be careful with what you're saying.

 

[Baptist Believer]

I find the sweeping generalizations that are being given that NO Christian church does any of this stuff is offensive.

I don't think that anyone is saying that "NO" Christian church is involved in the ministries you mentioned... I think the assertion being made is that most churches don't do this kind of ministry.

I've been in quite a few churches over the years and only about 10% of them had a strong "social" ministry. Fortunately I am currently a part of a church that is heavily invested in the community and the needs of the poor and lost.

However, the finest church I ever knew was pastored by a wealthy Texas oilman who had come to Christ late in life. He provided the majority of the offering of the congregation he pastored since he focused his ministry toward the poorest people in his community. He personally led the benevolence ministries and used his network of business acquaintances to find meaningful education and work opportunities for those were unemployed. He preached a simple gospel that emphasized a transformed life through the power of the Holy Spirit, spiritual disciplines, and taking personal responsibility for one's past, present and future.

Many people came to Christ in his ministry, became leaders in the church, and bettered their economic position through hard work and education.

 

[Crabtownboy]

Clueless

Agreed, no one is saying that no church participates in work in helping the poor, the downtroddened, those in great need. There are churches that do and thank God for them. My comment was that in my experience it is very hard to find a fundamentalist church that will help. In my area quite a number of fundamentalists have been approached to help with a food bank. All declined and some criticized those who were working with the poor and helping at the food bank.

Alcott, I would rather help someone and find out later that it was a mistake than to sit around judging and let those in real need go unhelped.

I will have to check Paul's writings and try to determine if he was writing about a specific place/incident or if he was speaking generally. Regardless I will come down on the side of Christ and help where I can and not sit on my chair judging others.:tonofbricks:

 

[Crabtownboy]

Alright, we'll try another one and you make the call... Sure, Jesus said to feed the hungry, and Paul said in I Thessalonians 3 that anyone who does not work should not eat, referring to those who are refusing to work and living 'unruly' lives. Should we feed those who refuse to work and spend their days making trouble, or not? Or does that only apply to the community of believers; in which case we would be refusing to help 'our own' the way we help others?

Well old buddy, I've checked, as you can see below and for the life of me I cannot see where Paul talks about not working or nor eating in this chapter. Are you confusing Thessalonians with John Smith at Jamestown, VA in 1607-8? :tonofbricks:

1 Thessalonians 3 (King James Version)


King James Version (KJV)
Public Domain


1 Thessalonians 3

1Wherefore when we could no longer forbear, we thought it good to be left at Athens alone;

2And sent Timotheus, our brother, and minister of God, and our fellowlabourer in the gospel of Christ, to establish you, and to comfort you concerning your faith:

3That no man should be moved by these afflictions: for yourselves know that we are appointed thereunto.

4For verily, when we were with you, we told you before that we should suffer tribulation; even as it came to pass, and ye know.

5For this cause, when I could no longer forbear, I sent to know your faith, lest by some means the tempter have tempted you, and our labour be in vain.

6But now when Timotheus came from you unto us, and brought us good tidings of your faith and charity, and that ye have good remembrance of us always, desiring greatly to see us, as we also to see you:

7Therefore, brethren, we were comforted over you in all our affliction and distress by your faith:

8For now we live, if ye stand fast in the Lord.

9For what thanks can we render to God again for you, for all the joy wherewith we joy for your sakes before our God;

10Night and day praying exceedingly that we might see your face, and might perfect that which is lacking in your faith?

11Now God himself and our Father, and our Lord Jesus Christ, direct our way unto you.

12And the Lord make you to increase and abound in love one toward another, and toward all men, even as we do toward you:

13To the end he may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints.

 

[Crabtownboy]

Clueless

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Alright, we'll try another one and you make the call... Sure, Jesus said to feed the hungry, and Paul said in I Thessalonians 3 that anyone who does not work should not eat, referring to those who are refusing to work and living 'unruly' lives. Should we feed those who refuse to work and spend their days making trouble, or not? Or does that only apply to the community of believers; in which case we would be refusing to help 'our own' the way we help others?

Sorry Alcott, I couldn't let the little attempt at humor, i.e. John Smith at Jamestown, pass. ]

What you really meant was 2 Thess. 3.

Here is part of what Matthew Henry says:

Such as could work, and would not, were not to be maintained in idleness. Christianity is not to countenance slothfulness, which would consume what is meant to encourage the industrious, and to support the sick and afflicted

[I assume you do feel that M. Henry is acceptable as a source of explanation.]

Note those who can work are to support the sick and afflicted, not judge them as unfit. That in a nutshell is my arugment and that surely is what Christ taught.. And yes we are commanded to make the world a better place by helping those in need, the hungry, the naked, the sick, those in jail. etc. :tonofbricks: