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Whats wrong with Calvinists ?

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atpollard

atpollard

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SavedByGrace said:
indeed, HOW can the Good News about the Great slavation of the Lord Jesus Christ, whether believed or not, can be in any way "wasted"? They still hear the Great News, regardless of whether they accept it! The Gospel Message is never "wasted", what is, is the lives of those who wilfully REJECT it!
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You asked why God could not sent Christians to just the people that were "elect", so

Why can God not send Christians just to the people that will willingly believe?

The lives of those that will "willfully REJECT it" are wasted either way and God already knows who is who (omniscience).
 
I

Iconoclast

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Barry Johnson said:
Calvinism is not exactly monolithic so it can depend on the calvinist you speak to . I notice this on leighton flowers and Kevin Thompson s channels on YouTube. In fact just about everyone who challenges Calvinism is accused with not understanding Calvinism. What's going on here ? Can only Calvinsts understand Calvinism, is this part of the secret inside knowing , bestowed on the ' chosen ' ?
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Neither of those two men understand the teaching.
Many have offered correction ,but they have not been allowed to welcome it.
You like others who feed on such error will not come to truth following the blind, both will fall in the ditch.
 
Dave G

Dave G

Well-Known Member
SavedByGrace said:
check the textual evidence for yourself, and you will see that it reads YOU, and not US! The oldest reading for "YOU" is the Papyri ms 72, which is from the 3rd century, and the Old Latin which is early 2nd century! The oldest Greek ms for the reading "US", is the NINTH century codex K! There you have it. The reading YOU also includes the "mockers and scoffers"! Obviously changed by someone who did not like the fact that God would "will" the salvation of ALL the world, including these "mockers and scoffers", like Reformed/Calvinists do!
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Respectfully,
I'm not concerned with "textual evidence", I'm more concerned with what the text actually says.

Question:
When you read the entire chapter for yourself, how do you see the context of that verse?
 
atpollard

atpollard

Well-Known Member
George Antonios said:
Finishing the race has nothing to do with salvation in the church age.
It has to do with rewards, not salvation.
Salvation is not a "race". The ministry is.
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Thank you for correcting my euphemism and shame on you for not answering the obvious question.

Again with greater clarity:

If "Calvinists" cannot know that they are "the elect" and destined to spend eternity in heaven, then how do NON-CALVINISTS know that they will ultimately go to heaven and not hell?
 
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Yeshua1

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atpollard said:
Thank you for correcting my euphemism and shame on you for not answering the obvious question.

If "Calvinists" cannot know that they are "the elect" and destined to spend eternity in heaven, then how do NON-CALVINISTS know that they will ultimately go to heaven and not hell?
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Thought that the Holy Spirit confirms to us that we now are the children of God?
 
George Antonios

George Antonios

Well-Known Member
atpollard said:
Thank you for correcting my euphemism and shame on you for not answering the obvious question.

Again with greater clarity:

If "Calvinists" cannot know that they are "the elect" and destined to spend eternity in heaven, then how do NON-CALVINISTS know that they will ultimately go to heaven and not hell?
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I don't know what just happened. Evidently you think I misunderstood something in your post, but I don't see what that is.
Anyway, to answer your question, it's simple:
  • God elects those who believe on his Son (Eph.1:13/1Pe.1:2).
  • I believed on his Son, therefore I am elect.
Whether I persevere or not is immaterial to my salvation, specifically. I've been born again and it cannot be undone.
"Lordship salvation" is not true during the church age although it will be true during the tribulation.
Therefore I know 100% that I am saved :) I'm not hoping to find out.

Thus my non-Calvinism + my dispensationalism = perfect assurance of salvation.

You cannot know it because of your Calvinist system, as I stated, but you could certainly know it from the scriptures, rightly understood and divided.
 
M

MB

Well-Known Member
George Antonios said:
I don't know what just happened. Evidently you think I misunderstood something in your post, but I don't see what that is.
Anyway, to answer your question, it's simple:
  • God elects those who believe on his Son (Eph.1:13/1Pe.1:2).
  • I believed on his Son, therefore I am elect.
Whether I persevere or not is immaterial to my salvation, specifically. I've been born again and it cannot be undone.
"Lordship salvation" is not true during the church age although it will be true during the tribulation.
Therefore I know 100% that I am saved :) I'm not hoping to find out.

Thus my non-Calvinism + my dispensationalism = perfect assurance of salvation.

You cannot know it because of your Calvinist system, as I stated, but you could certainly know it from the scriptures, rightly understood and divided.
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The Bible tells me I'm saved. The holy Spirit inside of me tells me. Something for determinist. It has been determined that man will be saved the moment he believes.
MB
 
Y

Yeshua1

Well-Known Member
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MB said:
The Bible tells me I'm saved. The holy Spirit inside of me tells me. Something for determinist. It has been determined that man will be saved the moment he believes.
MB
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God already determined that they would be able to believe!
 
atpollard

atpollard

Well-Known Member
George Antonios said:
  • God elects those who believe on his Son (Eph.1:13/1Pe.1:2).
  • I believed on his Son, therefore I am elect.
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How is that not true of every Calvinist and Arminian?
Their assurance comes from the exact same place as your assurance.
Calvinists just acknowledge that God loved us first ... even before we were born [we learned that from reading our Bible].
 
atpollard

atpollard

Well-Known Member
George Antonios said:
You cannot know it because of your Calvinist system, as I stated, but you could certainly know it from the scriptures, rightly understood and divided.
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Once again, I cannot know it from YOUR CALVINIST SYSTEM, however the Doctrines of Grace do not teach what you (another non-Calvinist expert on Calvinism) claim they teach.
 
SavedByGrace

SavedByGrace

Well-Known Member
Dave G said:
Respectfully,
I'm not concerned with "textual evidence", I'm more concerned with what the text actually says.

Question:
When you read the entire chapter for yourself, how do you see the context of that verse?
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very easy, as chapter 3 follows 2, where we read in 2:1, that Jesus BOUGHT, that is DIED for the sins of the false prophets, false teaches, and heretics, it is simple without the distortion of theology, to see that THESE, as well as those in chapter 3, the mockers and scoffers, are in the words of 3:9. Of course the Calvinist/Reformed are more interested in their pet theology, so blinded to what the Bible says. Like you are doing with the textual evidence, when it is a FACT that the reading in versions like the KJV are wrong! Or, do you think that the KJV is directly inspired by the Holy Spirit?
 
Y

Yeshua1

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
SavedByGrace said:
very easy, as chapter 3 follows 2, where we read in 2:1, that Jesus BOUGHT, that is DIED for the sins of the false prophets, false teaches, and heretics, it is simple without the distortion of theology, to see that THESE, as well as those in chapter 3, the mockers and scoffers, are in the words of 3:9. Of course the Calvinist/Reformed are more interested in their pet theology, so blinded to what the Bible says. Like you are doing with the textual evidence, when it is a FACT that the reading in versions like the KJV are wrong! Or, do you think that the KJV is directly inspired by the Holy Spirit?
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Kjv was not inspired, but is a valid translation!
 
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