SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
sure, but textual studies have advanced over the years, and new evidence for readings of passages must be considered if well supported.
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Whats wrong with Calvinists ?
- Thread starter Barry Johnson
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sure, but textual studies have advanced over the years, and new evidence for readings of passages must be considered if well supported.
Dave G
Well-Known Member
So...
What you're telling me is, that in order to figure out who the "usward" is in verse 9 from chapter 3 , I have to go back to chapter 2 ( which deals with false teachers ) and fill in the answer to the context of 2 Peter 3:1-10;
Which only deals with false teachers and unbelievers in 2 Peter 3:3-7.
Then Peter, by the inspiration of the Holy Ghost, writes these words:
" But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day [is] with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up." ( 2 Peter 3:8-10 ).
But in the interests of answering my question ( which it seems that you did not, or I must have missed it ), who are the "usward" in verse 9, if not the "beloved" from verse 8?
The false teachers, mockers and scoffers?
Dave G
Well-Known Member
That's kind of you to say.
On a side note, did you know that mocking and scoffing are bad fruits ( Galatians 5:19-21 )?
Those actions are both rooted in pride and are done from a perspective of trying to establish superiority over an opponent...
In the AV, it's known as "emulations", and the Bible says that people who do that unrepentantly will not inherit the kingdom of Heaven.
Are you saying that it's not God's word?
Just to be clear, it appears that you're saying that it's corrupt and not to be trusted,
When it has been considered God's word in the English for over 400 years by many millions of believers.
Again, do you think it's not the word of God?
I do.
Therefore, when I point at it and it says, "thus saith the Lord", I'm looking at God's words in my own language...
A little out-of-date, perhaps.
Barry Johnson
Well-Known Member
This statement alone is the root of the problem. This is the confusion. No this is false. The Atonement is not limited . But glorification is .
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Barry Johnson
Well-Known Member
Because we are predestined to the Adoption after we believe, being sealed by the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption.
SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
I have already show that this reading is not what the Apostle John wrote, but YOU is the correct one, based on the evidence of the ancient authorities, that you have no interest in listening to. Then there is no further need to take this any further.
SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
The reading "us" in 2 Peter 3:9 is 100% NOT God's Word, becuase it is NOT what the Holy Spirit Inspired. This is very simple to understand
SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
can you not understand the very simple English that I have used? I can make it more simple for you. NO "version" of the Holy Bible today, is "given by Inspiration of the Holy Spirit", ONLY the Original Authorgraphs" of the 66 Books are.
Dave G
Well-Known Member
The word in the Greek is, "ἡμᾶς ", transliterated into the English as, " hēmas " and literally means "us", "we", "our".
SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
not before?
Dave G
Well-Known Member
Oh?
So then nothing I pick up can be trusted to be the inspired word of God.
I think I understand your position thoroughly now.
I also think that you should start a thread saying that the AV, as well as none of the other translations in the English, are ( or even contain ) God's inspired words.
That should go over well, especially with people who aren't aware of what you know about the "KJV" and they are still thinking that it's God's word.
But we're dealing with a subject in the "Calvinism versus Arminiansm" section, and that would be for the "Bible Translations" section.
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SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
and what? This reading is of a very late date. The reading ὑμᾶς, which is YOU, is from the early 2nd century and has the far greater textual evidence. This is fact. "You" is the reading of the NASB, ESV, NLT, NIV, CSB, GNT, ISV, HCSB, NET, GWT, NAS, ASV, D-RB, DARBY, WEYMOUTH, which is the greater majority of English versions!
Dave G
Well-Known Member
See my post # 71.
In addition, we're talking about doctrine, not translations.
Who are the "you" in verse 9, if you are so inclined?
The false teachers?
Who, according to Galatians 1 are cursed and will be thrown in Hell for their offenses towards God?
SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
so the New World Translation of the JW's is also "Inspired" by God the Holy Spirit? Then the reading, "and the Logos was a god", is what the Holy Spirit Inspired? Are ALL translations then the Inspired, Infallible Word of Almighty God? You certainly do NOT understand what Biblical Inspiration means!
Dave G
Well-Known Member
You're telling me that the AV is not the inspired word of God.
To me, you're a liar.
SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
Including, but not limited to, those also mentioned in verse 2
"knowing this first of all, that scoffers will come in the last days with scoffing, following their own sinful desires"
And those also in 2:1
"But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction."
SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
The AV, like ALL translations, is just that, A TRANSLATION. And like ALL TRANSLATIONS, is from manuscripts that are copied of what the Lord originally Inspired. The AV is NOT Infallible, even though some are deluded in thinking so! It HAS errors, like the INCORRECT translation of the Greek in places like Titus 2:13; 2 Peter 1:1, etc
Dave G
Well-Known Member
Please excuse me sir,
but right now I see you doing a lot of mocking and scoffing.
I encourage you to obey Romans 12 and several other passages that speak to our conduct as believers.
That said, I think that we are finished with any discussion that I may have been interested in having with you.
I also find that I must place you on ignore, so as not to be tempted to read your posts in the future.
I simply cannot abide by a person who names the names of Christ who tells me that I cannot pick up my Bible, the AV, with the full assurance that it is the inspired word of God.
I wish you well in this life,
and may God be pleased to bless you with wisdom, knowledge and most of all, a genuine fear ( reverent respect ) of Him and His ways.
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SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
let me ask you this, do you think that the NASB and ESV translations are also Inspired by the Holy Spirit?
Barry Johnson
Well-Known Member
No thats the confusion. Both Calvinism and Arminsim put election and Predestination before we are converted. The bible says its after . This , just like other issues with certain 'isms' comes across quite radical. Like issues with the extent ,intent , potent nonsense about limiting the atonement.
Predestination is of existing saints to adoption/glorification, not sinners to conversion. (Eph. 1:5, 11; Rom. 8:23, 29-30)
Election is to service, calling and purpose, not to salvation. (Isa. 42:1; Acts 9:15; Rom. 11:28)
Adoption is the future redemption of the body, not conversion. (Rom. 8:23, 15-17; Gal. 4:1-6)
Sinners become sons of God through the new birth, not through adoption. (John 1:12-13)
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