Because that man forgot more bible than you will ever know.
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Whats wrong with Calvinists ?
- Thread starter Barry Johnson
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Dave G
Well-Known Member
Reminds me of this one:
" And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in [your] mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled
22 in the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:
23 if ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and [be] not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, [and] which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;" ( Colossians 1:21-23 ).
Truly we hope in God and on His mercy everyday.
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Alan Gross
Well-Known Member
Because it cannot be said too often that a false theology finds its source in inadequate views of depravity.
Dave G
Well-Known Member
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I hope not, my friend.
I really want him to see it.
Point taken...It is true that when God opens eyes the results can be dramatic.
I find it hard to not comment when someone disrespects a very learned person when they cannot even grasp most if any of the teaching.
I do not agree with everything he wrote or believed, but he was very formidable
George Antonios
Well-Known Member
Because Calvinists, due to Lordship salvation, only find out for sure if they were one of the elect after a lifetime of persevering. You haven't yet persevered a lifetime so you could still potentially fall away and have it turn out that you weren't one of the elect after all.
Fancy this. A non-Calvinist who "doesn't" understand Calvinism explaining it to a Calvinist.
We had an entire thread about this.
George Antonios
Well-Known Member
Where does Jesus say he is God?
George Antonios
Well-Known Member
Romans 11:25 KJV
For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
Mathew 9:6; John 5:23; 8:58; 10:27-30; Revelation 1:17-18; 22:12-13, etc, etc
SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
Take the man himself, John Calvin, he did not believe in any "limited atonement", but did believe in "election",as taught by todays "Reformed". As both go together, you cannot believe in the "U", without the "L". I have books by Calvinists, where they say that sinners must repent from their sins are turn to the Lord; and in the same book claim that they actually do nothing!
You have quite an imagination as you fancy any such thing as taking place.
However as John Lennon now knows, what you imagine does not match reality.
Calvinists understand that Jesus is Lord and the good works He has ordained will ne accomplished in and through us.Phil 1:6
God works in us to will and to do His good pleasure.
atpollard
Well-Known Member
This is a statement contradicted by scripture and taught by no "Calvinist" that I know. Certainly the Doctrines of Grace do not teach that Perseverance of the Saints means "You cannot know that you are a Saint until you have Persevered to the end". It teaches exactly the opposite. The Saints, the Elect, those CHOSEN by God will persevere to the end because God is able to make them persevere to the end. Charles Spurgeon taught no such nonsense as you claim. R.C.Sproul taught no such nonsense as you claim.
So once again, a non-Calvinist that is an expert on what Calvinists believe raising up and tearing down yet another strawman.
[Sigh] I would claim to be surprised, but the truth is this is just "par for the course".
Sola Gratia
Sola Fide
Solus Christus
Sola Scriptura
Soli Deo Gloria
SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
UNBIBLICAL!!!
Craig Hooker
New Member
I would say it's more of a issue of misrepresenting what Calvinism teaches and the erecting of strawmen that's more of the problem
atpollard
Well-Known Member
The issue for John Calvin was he was careful to study scripture and unwilling to say what he could not prove from scripture. Calvin believed that he could prove that God elected (chose) people to save based on Scripture and Calvin believed that scripture clearly taught that this choice was based on nothing to do with anyone deserving to be selected (merit in the person), so Calvin articulated what later came to be called Unconditional Election. Calvin recognized that it made LOGICAL sense that Christ would have only died for His sheep (the elect) and that the death of Christ actually does save those for whom he died (what later came to be called "Limited Atonement"), however Calvin was not convinced that scripture was absolutely clear on that point, so he left the matter open to speculation and wrote about both "Limited Atonement" and "Universal Atonement" as he discussed different parts of scripture.
So Calvin did not "reject" the "L" of TULIP, rather he was honest in his being unsure of its complete scriptural certainty and left the question open.
It is an honest confusion easily resolved by defining your point of view. Let me offer an example that everyone should agree on.
If I claim "No man is saved because of his good works", few would disagree.
If I paraphrased James and claimed "Saved men have good works to show for their salvation", few would disagree.
So I could claim in one place that saints must have good works, and in another place that good works are unnecessary.
In the same way, from a Calvinist perspective, God is the source of salvation so God requires nothing from us in order to save us ... no good works and no repentance (Eph 2 ... while we were still sinners, God made us alive). Repentance and good works are then both the "fruit" of the salvation that God has accomplished.
You do not need to agree. I just wanted to explain the Point of View from which the author made the apparently contradictory statements so you could understand what he was actually trying to say.
This is a statement contradicted by scripture and taught by no "Calvinist" that I know. Certainly the Doctrines of Grace do not teach that Perseverance of the Saints means "You cannot know that you are a Saint until you have Persevered to the end". It teaches exactly the opposite. The Saints, the Elect, those CHOSEN by God will persevere to the end because God is able to make them persevere to the end. Charles Spurgeon taught no such nonsense as you claim. R.C.Sproul taught no such nonsense as you claim.
So once again, a non-Calvinist that is an expert on what Calvinists believe raising up and tearing down yet another strawman.
[Sigh] I would claim to be surprised, but the truth is this is just "par for the course".
Sola Gratia
Sola Fide
Solus Christus
Sola Scriptura
Soli Deo Gloria
None of those solas are true. Why would someone want to present the scriptures in such a manner? For instance, grace alone, faith alone, when salvation is by grace through faith according to the scriptures, and so read this amazing refutation of such nonsense in a single blow from Romans 4:16, hold on to your seats now, "Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace;" Of course he is speaking of what Calvinists are telling us is by grace alone, and then, by faith alone. And what about this block buster statement in Rom 5:1 where we are told this;
Rom 5:1c our Lord Jesus Christ:
2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
What offends bible believing Christians who can read the scriptures without a spin is that Calvinists are so easily duped into accepting ideas that are in opposition to easily understood and logical and reasonable statements and even present as truth really silly doctrines that have no actual foundation in reality and then try to convince us, that because of it, they are the smartest people in the room.
My question is why does Calvinism get a pass from the same category as Mormonism and Russellism when the doctrines are formulated by men and are in opposition to scripture like I just demonstrated?
I post this knowing that my comments will not be well received but also knowing the truth will make you free. I would like to say such plain things without offending my Calvinist friends but this is the best I can do.
John 8
atpollard
Well-Known Member
You are always free to return to the Catholic church, but I will stand with the Reformation and the Holy Bible.
Sola Fide (Faith alone)
We are judged righteous in the sight of God purely on the basis of our faith. The atoning sacrifice of Christ leads to righteousness being imputed to us as sinners through a legal declaration by God. This is often stated as Justification by faith alone. There is a clear distinction between Justification and Sanctification, the latter being the growth in holiness arising from the work of the Holy Spirit in the Christian.
FAITH = Forsaking All I Trust Him.
“But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for the just shall live by faith.” Galatians 3:11 (KJV).
Commenting on Justification in his writings, Martin Luther argued that:
“This one and firm rock, which we call the doctrine of justification, is the chief article of the whole Christian doctrine, which comprehends the understanding of all godliness.”
The church is only gentile?
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