Whats wrong with the SBC churches in my area?

[drfuss]

Duplicate post. Sorry about that.

 

[FR7 Baptist]

I consider it a great song recording. I would buy a CD with songs like that on it. Note that the drum beats were only supporting and in the background and did not dominate the song, i.e. not beat-driven.

I wonder if this song is too tame for Havensdad.

I'm going to make a suggestion- what bothers you about rock music isn't the drums, but rather the guitar. The song I posted uses a rock drumming pattern. After comparing it to several hard rock songs, the drums aren't much lower in the mix on the choir song than the rock examples I compared it to. I'm a member of that choir and I was in this recording. The song has drums and electric bass, both of which can be heard very clearly. There actually is an electric guitar on this, but it's mixed fairly low. I think the reason you're okay with the song I posted is because there isn't a distorted guitar up front in the mix- not anything to do with the drums.

 

[drfuss]

I'm going to make a suggestion- what bothers you about rock music isn't the drums, but rather the guitar. The song I posted uses a rock drumming pattern. After comparing it to several hard rock songs, the drums aren't much lower in the mix on the choir song than the rock examples I compared it to. I'm a member of that choir and I was in this recording. The song has drums and electric bass, both of which can be heard very clearly. There actually is an electric guitar on this, but it's mixed fairly low. I think the reason you're okay with the song I posted is because there isn't a distorted guitar up front in the mix- not anything to do with the drums.

I totally disagree. That song is not beat-driven. Yes, you can hear the drums as you should, but the drums are only supportive and are not dominate which would make the song beat-driven. Our church used to have that kind of music, and we loved it. Now the congregational music is loud, harsh and beat-driven. Our church still has an orchestra and a choir, although both are smaller along with the change in music. BTW, our drummer sits in a sound cage so the people sitting next to him can stand the drum noise.

I suspect that since you are in that choir, you don't realize what beat-driven songs have taken over in some Baptist churches.

 

[Havensdad]

I wonder if this song is too tame for Havensdad.

Actually I prefer old reformed hymns, set to classic piano, or acoustic guitar with no augmentation.

My favorite song is actually "Mighty Fortress is Our God." If someone tried to put drums to it, I would probably peg them with my size 11.

 

[FR7 Baptist]

I totally disagree. That song is not beat-driven. Yes, you can hear the drums as you should, but the drums are only supportive and are not dominate which would make the song beat-driven. Our church used to have that kind of music, and we loved it. Now the congregational music is loud, harsh and beat-driven. Our church still has an orchestra and a choir, although both are smaller along with the change in music. BTW, our drummer sits in a sound cage so the people sitting next to him can stand the drum noise.

I suspect that since you are in that choir, you don't realize what beat-driven songs have taken over in some Baptist churches.

I'm not trying to be argumentative; I'm just not really sure what makes a song "beat driven". Is it the volume of the drums, or is it what the drummer is playing or some combination thereof? As an aside, we do use a sound cage for our drum set as it gives the sound people more control over the sound and better isolation.

Also, we do music that is a lot more traditional than that as well as some that is more rhythm driven than that.

What are your thoughts on using electric bass in church music? I've been learning that instrument for about six months now, and it can make something sound pretty beat driven.

 

[Tom Butler]

#1 Thats not true. I know several people in their 70's, who prefer contemporary worship.

#2 The same goes in reverse. Our music is annoying to them, too. That's part of being a congregation. The worship music is (should be) a reflection of the various members, NOT excluding young people and youth.

Re:#2 How many times is that the case, though? By that I mean a diversified selection of music in one service. Seems to me that I see advertised "contemporary service," "traditional service," but rarely a "blended service."

Rather than "NOT excluding young people and youth," as you put it, let's make sure it's NOT excluding the older folks.

Just don't forget us geezers.

 

[drfuss]

Actually I prefer old reformed hymns, set to classic piano, or acoustic guitar with no augmentation.

My favorite song is actually "Mighty Fortress is Our God." If someone tried to put drums to it, I would probably peg them with my size 11.

Actually my church did "Mighty Fortress is Out God" as a congregational song. Luckily, I was not there; because I heard from a number of people that it was horrible. Considering what they do to other good songs, I can imagine what it was like.

 

[nodak]

It's pretty simple to know what beat driven music is.

It doesn't just set folks toes to tapping or a bit of clapping to the rhythm.

As my daughter said as a tot, it makes their "butts dance."

 

[mandym]

All music is beat driven. If there is no beat there is no music.

 

[drfuss]

I'm not trying to be argumentative; I'm just not really sure what makes a song "beat driven". Is it the volume of the drums, (Yes) or is it what the drummer is playing or some combination thereof? (probably) As an aside, we do use a sound cage for our drum set as it gives the sound people more control over the sound and better isolation.

Also, we do music that is a lot more traditional than that as well as some that is more rhythm driven than that. (To me, rhythm music does not drive the song, but supports the song. Beat-driven music drives the song; if I don't submit to the beat, it is irritating. I prefer to submit to the Lord)

What are your thoughts on using electric bass in church music? I've been learning that instrument for about six months now, and it can make something sound pretty beat driven.

I answered your post in bold letters above.

I think you may have a point about the electric bass. In addition to our music being too loud and beat-driven, it also has a harshness sound to it that is also irritating. This morning I listened for the electric bass; and it may be what causes the harshness. If so, why would anyone want an electric bass which causes music to have a harsh sound which irritates people?

This morning, I left before the altar call, to prepare for teaching a class. However, my wife said they sang a good altar call song, but they changed it to have a jerky beat to it. Why?

 

[Alive in Christ]

I think others should be able to worship God through Praise and worship, and electric guitar solos (which sound so much better than a banjo!... )

I tend to disagree with that. :laugh:
v
v
v
v
v
v
v
v

 

[FR7 Baptist]

I think you may have a point about the electric bass. In addition to our music being too loud and beat-driven, it also has a harshness sound to it that is also irritating. This morning I listened for the electric bass; and it may be what causes the harshness.

It can sound harsh, but it doesn't have to. It's dependent on how it's played, the EQ settings, etc.

If so, why would anyone want an electric bass which causes music to have a harsh sound which irritates people?

I don't think it irritates most people. Many church instrumental programs have too few bass instruments, so a lot of them go electric as a way to fill out the sound. Here's an interesting article on that: http://davidwinkler.com/static/the-bass-section-in-the-church-orchestra.html

Furthermore, most contemporary church music for choir and orchestra has a bass guitar part written. There are bass guitar parts for everything in the Baptist Hymnal.

 

[sag38]

We are 75% over 50 and we have an electric bass. Have had one for years and no one appears to be irritated. Maybe it's just you who is irritated. We think the bass and the drums add a great dynamic to the music. In fact, I'd be irritated if it were to go away.

 

[FR7 Baptist]

We are 75% over 50 and we have an electric bass. Have had one for years and no one appears to be irritated. Maybe it's just you who is irritated. We think the bass and the drums add a great dynamic to the music. In fact, I'd be irritated if it were to go away.

Of course, they sit out when we do classical music as there is no drum set part and while you could play the double bass part on the bass guitar it would change the feel of the music too much.

 

[drfuss]

It can sound harsh, but it doesn't have to. It's dependent on how it's played, the EQ settings, etc.



I don't think it irritates most people. Many church instrumental programs have too few bass instruments, so a lot of them go electric as a way to fill out the sound. Here's an interesting article on that: http://davidwinkler.com/static/the-bass-section-in-the-church-orchestra.html

Furthermore, most contemporary church music for choir and orchestra has a bass guitar part written. There are bass guitar parts for everything in the Baptist Hymnal.

As indicated in post #40, we have an arrangement where we can go to church and don't have to be in the service when most of the loud, harsh, beat-driven music is played. At home, we play the good songs that encourage worship for us. So we have learned to be content.

 

[Old Union Brother]

If it moves your feet before it moves your heart is it worship music?

 

[FR7 Baptist]

As indicated in post #40, we have an arrangement where we can go to church and don't have to be in the service when most of the loud, harsh, beat-driven music is played. At home, we play the good songs that encourage worship for us. So we have learned to be content.

That's fine. I just like talking about bass guitars.

 

[humblethinker]

Than answer is simple: rock music has a polarizing effect. When it's introduced into a congregation, it either attracts or repels. It never unites.

I think it may be better argued that people who cause division over non essential issues have a polarizing effect.

 

[humblethinker]

If it moves your feet before it moves your heart is it worship music?

Do you start your songs off in acapella and then later add the music? What moves the heart can only be meaning, right? Either the lyrics ascribe to us what the meaning is or we ascribe to the music what the meaning is.

Seems to me that music requires an immediate physical response... either resonance or dissonance (this response applies to all physical matter affected, including the body and I would apply it to the mind as well). Some minds, or tastes if you will, are so preferrential and dogmatic that there is immediate mental dissonance.

So, if I tap my toe because the intro to the choir special is resonating with me and I am ascribing meaning to the music (the meaning being that God is great, exciting, wonderful, thrilling, etc.), what is the harm? Especially when the words are in agreement with such a musical intro. Should the choir/orchestra start out in acapella first so that I can be justified in tapping my toe when the accompanying music is played?

 

[quantumfaith]

Do you start your songs off in acapella and then later add the music? What moves the heart can only be meaning, right? Either the lyrics ascribe to us what the meaning is or we ascribe to the music what the meaning is.

Seems to me that music requires an immediate physical response... either resonance or dissonance (this response applies to all physical matter affected, including the body and I would apply it to the mind as well). Some minds, or tastes if you will, are so preferrential and dogmatic that there is immediate mental dissonance.

So, if I tap my toe because the intro to the choir special is resonating with me and I am ascribing meaning to the music (the meaning being that God is great, exciting, wonderful, thrilling, etc.), what is the harm? Especially when the words are in agreement with such a musical intro. Should the choir/orchestra start out in acapella first so that I can be justified in tapping my toe when the accompanying music is played?

I am with you here HT, for me the "moving" thing in music is foremost the lyrical power. Of course, I have my "preference" as to musical "style" but I realize that others might enjoy one "format" of music more than I, I patiently wait and look forward to those songs that bend my heart toward worship.