When 2 Tim 3:2 is fulfilled

[evangelist6589]

2 Tim 3:2 (NIV)
People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy,

2 Tim 3:2 (ESV)
For people will be lovers of self, lovers of money, proud, arrogant, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy,

Today in SS a guy that has been there for 1-2 months was telling everyone about all the different things he wants to do. He wants to be a doctor, a mechanic, a teacher, and all these things and by what he was speaking he could do all these things. He also says he does not have a job, does not drive, does not own a car, and lacks the money for college so I politely challenged him to reconsider his goals and to aim at something he can accomplish and by what God has gifted him to do. I even went out of my way to recommend certain books to read on Success and or careers.

But that was too much as he claimed my advice crushed his spirit because in his view he can do anything he wants to do in life as long as he puts his mind to it.

I listen to the Dave Ramsey show and I can tell of dozens of callers that were fed that advice that are in thousands of dollars in student loan debts they cannot pay because they pursued careers in areas they were not gifted at, and those that disagreed with them were considered to be MEAN, AND HARSH. I sure wish I was given good Godly books and advice growing up for I would not be in the multiple thousands in student loan debts if I would have pursued something I could do. But NO I did not listen.

 

[Zaac]

Perhaps rather than telling him he could not do these things you could encourage him and ask him what he is doing to accomplish those things? He may just need a kick start to understand that it's good to have dreams, but that dreams are achieved by ACTION.

Faith without works.

He's got the faith. Now encourage him to get to work.

 

[evangelist6589]

Perhaps rather than telling him he could not do these things you could encourage him and ask him what he is doing to accomplish those things? He may just need a kick start to understand that it's good to have dreams, but that dreams are achieved by ACTION.

Faith without works.

He's got the faith. Now encourage him to get to work.

I recommended him to read and take action.

 

[Don]

Actually, Zaac, "The Voice" and other TV shows are the proof that what you've written is incorrect.

I can dream and study and practice as much as I want; the harsh truth is that I will never be able to sing like Frank Sinatra. That dream will never become a reality. And you encouraging me to work harder will only lead me to a life of continual disappointment and depression.

Knew a young lady who was determined to be a nurse. She's dyslexic, and required someone to read her exams to her. She couldn't pass a medical terminology class without help. We had to ask her: did she realize that her disability would actually endanger lives, because that career requires being able to read and implement medical terms, sometimes in a matter of moments that she wouldn't have anyone available to assist her?

Intentions are noble; but reality trumps dreams....

 

[Getting it Right]

Shucks, folks..... just name it and claim it, and its done!:type:

 

[evangelist6589]

Actually, Zaac, "The Voice" and other TV shows are the proof that what you've written is incorrect.

I can dream and study and practice as much as I want; the harsh truth is that I will never be able to sing like Frank Sinatra. That dream will never become a reality. And you encouraging me to work harder will only lead me to a life of continual disappointment and depression.

Knew a young lady who was determined to be a nurse. She's dyslexic, and required someone to read her exams to her. She couldn't pass a medical terminology class without help. We had to ask her: did she realize that her disability would actually endanger lives, because that career requires being able to read and implement medical terms, sometimes in a matter of moments that she wouldn't have anyone available to assist her?

Intentions are noble; but reality trumps dreams....

This guy also has disabilities and sadly has been fed too much self help. But you know I am the bad guy for suggesting he can't do whatever he wants.

 

[evangelist6589]

Shucks, folks..... just name it and claim it, and its done!:type:

Speak against that and you are the bad guy, shake people's feelings and are not encouraging!

 

[Zaac]

Actually, Zaac, "The Voice" and other TV shows are the proof that what you've written is incorrect.

I can dream and study and practice as much as I want; the harsh truth is that I will never be able to sing like Frank Sinatra. That dream will never become a reality. And you encouraging me to work harder will only lead me to a life of continual disappointment and depression.

Knew a young lady who was determined to be a nurse. She's dyslexic, and required someone to read her exams to her. She couldn't pass a medical terminology class without help. We had to ask her: did she realize that her disability would actually endanger lives, because that career requires being able to read and implement medical terms, sometimes in a matter of moments that she wouldn't have anyone available to assist her?

Intentions are noble; but reality trumps dreams....

Good point Don. But I didn't mean with things that just aren't in your wheelhouse that you try to make a go at that. You made me think of an episode of the Golden Girls (don't judge me :laugh where Big Daddy ,Blanche's dad, decided he was gonna be a country singer but was AWFUL!

It just seems like he is having his dreams dashed before he can even come up with a plan of attack to accomplish anything.

 

[Don]

Good point Don. But I didn't mean with things that just aren't in your wheelhouse that you try to make a go at that. You made me think of an episode of the Golden Girls (don't judge me [emoji23]) where Big Daddy ,Blanche's dad, decided he was gonna be a country singer but was AWFUL!

It just seems like he is having his dreams dashed before he can even come up with a plan of attack to accomplish anything.

Based on the description we were given, this guy was all over the place. The description indicates that the individual believes he's qualified to do anything; and while I'm gonna address Evangelist in a further post, the guy wasn't interested in being helped to find out what he should be doing. He was looking for sympathy for his lot in life. If the guy is willing to actually get help, then I'll be happy to revise my assessment.

 

[Don]

This guy also has disabilities and sadly has been fed too much self help. But you know I am the bad guy for suggesting he can't do whatever he wants.

If this is true, then your mistake was offering a book. If he truly has disabilities, then a book may be beyond his ability.

Instead, try sitting down with him and working through a questionnaire. If necessary, make it a game. Break it up into several short sessions so he's not overwhelmed.

Once you have a skills/personality profile, then go over with him job options that fit that profile. Decide which ones he's most interested in. THEN find some places or people he can talk to about how to get those jobs.

 

[quantumfaith]

Community College is the best place to start. College's usually have very capable, competent and caring counseling staff which can assist a person in taking some personal inventory survey's and be given honest information as to what is needed and perhaps any deficits which must first be addressed.

It is a challenge to assist some who are shooting to high in their expectations. I will say with my almost 30 years of experience that for most it is essential to come to college with some idea of what they hope to accomplish, without direction years can be spent in aimless courses and large amounts of debt. I STRONGLY encourage students to do everything they can to avoid Student Loans rather rely on grants and scholarship opportunities and work.

 

[Scarlett O.]

oh forget it

 

[evangelist6589]

If this is true, then your mistake was offering a book. If he truly has disabilities, then a book may be beyond his ability.

Instead, try sitting down with him and working through a questionnaire. If necessary, make it a game. Break it up into several short sessions so he's not overwhelmed.

Once you have a skills/personality profile, then go over with him job options that fit that profile. Decide which ones he's most interested in. THEN find some places or people he can talk to about how to get those jobs.

Good advice. I have books and or websites that have assessments. I know he has disabilities but not sure to the degree he can't read. I just know being a doctor, mechanic, teacher seemed beyond him.

 

[Don]

Good advice. I have books and or websites that have assessments. I know he has disabilities but not sure to the degree he can't read. I just know being a doctor, mechanic, teacher seemed beyond him.

So--are you gonna sit down with him and help him out?

 

[Scarlett O.]

Good advice. I have books and or websites that have assessments. I know he has disabilities but not sure to the degree he can't read. I just know being a doctor, mechanic, teacher seemed beyond him.

You used the the word "know" and "seemed" in the same sentence. Which one is it? Do you KNOW he can't do some of these things does it just SEEM he has disabilities.

If he truly has disabilities, then, trust me - he KNOWS he can't do these things. He didn't need you, a virtual stranger to "advise" him to lower his expectations.

My brother, my only sibling has many disabilities. He KNOWS he can't have a life like everyone else. He KNOWS that his life pretty much sucks. If my brother were in your Sunday School class and he said something about a goal for his life and YOU shot him down with your expert advise and telling him to lower his life's expectations, you would have to deal with me and it would not be pleasant.

EVERY. BODY. ELSE. gets to talk about their life's dreams or goals and many times they know it isn't going to come to fruition. EVERY. BODY. ELSE gets to dream a little dream out loud.

Why can't the disabled "wish" to be a doctor or anything else without the "life police" telling them to lower their expectations.

The ONLY people who are allowed to bring reality checks to my brother are those of us who are 150% committed to loving him daily and walking him through the crappy life he has been dealt.

Any one else? They can take a long walk off of a short pier. And take their books with them.

Are YOU committed for the long haul with the disabled man to love him through the pain of dealing a life that is limited and painful?

If not, then shut up talking to him how he is shooting too high.

 

[evangelist6589]

So--are you gonna sit down with him and help him out?

If the opportunity presents itself.

 

[evangelist6589]

You used the the word "know" and "seemed" in the same sentence. Which one is it? Do you KNOW he can't do some of these things does it just SEEM he has disabilities.

If he truly has disabilities, then, trust me - he KNOWS he can't do these things. He didn't need you, a virtual stranger to "advise" him to lower his expectations.

My brother, my only sibling has many disabilities. He KNOWS he can't have a life like everyone else. He KNOWS that his life pretty much sucks. If my brother were in your Sunday School class and he said something about a goal for his life and YOU shot him down with your expert advise and telling him to lower his life's expectations, you would have to deal with me and it would not be pleasant.

EVERY. BODY. ELSE. gets to talk about their life's dreams or goals and many times they know it isn't going to come to fruition. EVERY. BODY. ELSE gets to dream a little dream out loud.

Why can't the disabled "wish" to be a doctor or anything else without the "life police" telling them to lower their expectations.

The ONLY people who are allowed to bring reality checks to my brother are those of us who are 150% committed to loving him daily and walking him through the crappy life he has been dealt.

Any one else? They can take a long walk off of a short pier. And take their books with them.

Are YOU committed for the long haul with the disabled man to love him through the pain of dealing a life that is limited and painful?

If not, then shut up talking to him how he is shooting too high.

Then he should not ask for advice publicly if he does not want to hear another POV.

 

[InTheLight]

Then he should not ask for advice publicly if he does not want to hear another POV.

 

[gigabyte71]

Not really sure how this is 2 Tim. 2:3 fulfilled, but seems like someone might take some advice from Paul.

"Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves." ~ Phil. 2:3

 

[Scarlett O.]

Then he should not ask for advice publicly if he does not want to hear another POV.

You did not say that he was asking for advice. You said he was telling people about his goals.

You said that you went "out of your way" to offer books that he should read even though you weren't sure that he could read them and your OP insinuates that the advice you gave him was unsolicited.

I have had many disabled people in my church who seem to fall into my Sunday School circle, women's circle, and choir circle.

You have to tread lightly and one-on-one when you are going to tell these people that you think they aren't qualified to do what they want to do. And that's ONLY if they honestly are seeking your counsel, not just randomly blathering about unattainable goals.

Your advice - if solicited -should have included options for him, but because you do not know him well, you don't have those options to give him.

I've had to tell the disabled that they can't do something when they have approached me personally about doing so.

One woman wanted to teach a Vacation Bible School class, and as director - I had to tell her no and why. But I had an option ready. I made her my kindergarten assistant for the week and she learned from working with me. She will never have her own class, but she is an excellent teacher's helper.

You just can't give unsolicited downers to disabled people unless you are willing to nurture them and grow their talents in that areas where they have strengths.

It's a long process and can take a toll on you. You have to be invested in that person.