Originally posted by I Am Blessed 16:
The conditions of fellowship:
"But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus christ, his Son cleanseth us from all sin." I John 1:7
Again, this verse is not stating that we are
out of fellowship with God. It says
IF we are in the light then we have fellowship
with each other (the body of Christ, the real church) and Christ's blood cleanses us. This is what happens when we are saved, we are cleansed and brought into the body of Christ. That is only
IF we walk in the light. What is the alternative to walking in the light?
1 John 1:5-6
6 If we claim to have fellowship with him yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not live by the truth.
NIV
We do one of two things, we are either in the light (saved and in Christ) or in the dark (lost and not in Christ). As I pointed out John said in the next book that
IF we have the truth in in us it is there
forever. We don't walk in the light, then in darkness, then in the light, then in darkness. The option is always one or the other. It's all right there in the context.
Originally posted by I Am Blessed 16:
Sins confessed, forgiven, and cleansed:
" IF we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." I John 1:9
I ask you to look at the context again. This
if is followed by the statement that
if we say we don't sin the truth is not in us. Again, this is referring to 2 examples, you are either a sinner saved by grace or you say you don't sin and are lost.
This letter was written to people we were falling into the decpetion of a religious belief called gnosticism (sp?) in which they believed that Christ did not come in the flesh and that we are simply spiritual beings. These verses were to specifically discount one of their teachings that man did not sin. John basically said, if you profess to believe what the gnostics say, you can't believe in Christ. You can't be saved by the blood of Christ if you don't profess to have any sin to be forgiven in the first place.
Even without understanding this fact, it is clear from the context that John isn't talking about some mysterious in and out of fellowship with God that takes place when we sin. It is not in the texts. With John, it was all or nothing.
Originally posted by I Am Blessed 16:
He RESTORES them to FELLOWSHIP:
Can you show me one verse in the New Testament that talks about our fellowship with God being restored?
Hebrews clearly says
IF a person falls away it is impossible for them to be restored, because they would be crucifying Christ all over again.
Heb 6:4-6
4 It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5 who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, 6 if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.
NIV
Again, with the Bible it's all or nothing. If you don't believe Christ forgave your sin already, there is no sacrifice left for that sin.
Originally posted by I Am Blessed 16:
"My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous;
And he is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world." I John 2:1-2
Sue
Again, he was speaking of an all or nothing thing. He just said, if you claim to be without sin you make God out to be a liar. He then says he wrote this so they would not sin. Sin how? They were sinning by saying that man had no sin, and calling God a liar. His words were not to condemn them but to share the good news that even though they had sin, Christ had come as a sacrifice to take away that sin! Again in verses 4 and 5 he confirms this is an all or nothing thing.
1 John 2:4-5
4 The man who says, "I know him," but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5 But if anyone obeys his word, God's love is truly made complete in him.
NIV
If you obey his words, to come to Christ and repent, God's love is made what? It is made
complete. But if not, the truth is not in him. This is the same truth that John said would be in us forever.
To say this is talking to christians is to ignore the context and purpose of the chapter. This book was written to people professing to be christians but clinging to gnosticsm.
I used to believe as you do. I used to spend many hours on my knees, confessing my sins as was supposedly in the 1 John 1:9 manner. Then I heard this taught a different way, and at first I was reluctant to believe it, but when I studied the scriptures further to see that no where does it teach that we are "In and out of fellowship" with God, I began to test it. Reading it in context really opened my eyes. Reading a verse with a pre-suppositioned belief can cloud your vision, at least it did mine.
So what do I do when I sin now? I realize it and repent of it. Not in a 5 hour prayer session of saying "I am sorry", but in the reailty of the word, turning away from that sin to turn towards walking in the spirit. I don't waste percious time with God focusing on sin he already forgave, it spend it communicating with God and listening to God. I have time to hear Him speak, because I can shut up now! He knows what a wretched person I am and He loves me anyway! HE is ALWAYS there!
Below is a website that explains it rather well. Please don't think I am picking on you, I am merely showing you the truth of this verse as it was revealed in the scriptures. Even us baptists, who claim we don't follow tradition, are hesitant to stop believing what we have been
taught, even if it doesn't really line up with all of God's Word. I just challenge you to look as this further, and let God speak to you.
In no way am I professing that we should continue to live in sin, but rather when we do sin, we should realize it, stop it and move forward in our walk with God, letting His spirit lead us. When you realize the beauty of his grace, it motivates you all the more to please Him and let Him work in and through you! Repentance is an action, not a time of retrospection.
http://www.realanswers.net/realaudio/1john.html
~Lorelei
