When are names written in the Lamb's book of Life?

[Dave G]

Man can and some do fall away from Christ to their loss.

Not unless they are tares, sir ( Matthew 13 ).
Have you not read?

" All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
39 And this is the Father’s will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day."

Christ will not cast out any of His elect, Silverhair... He will raise every one of them up at the last day.
He will lose none of the ones His Father gave to Him.

" My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28 and I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any [man] pluck them out of my hand.
29 My Father, which gave [them] me, is greater than all; and no [man] is able to pluck [them] out of my Father’s hand."

His sheep do indeed follow Him, and they shall never perish.
God their Father is greater than all, and there is no one who can pluck them out of His hand.

Finally,
We are kept by His power, through faith unto that salvation, to the last day ( 1 Peter 1:5 ).
All of their trespasses are forgiven :

" And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
14 blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
15 [and] having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it." ( Colossians 2:13-15 )

 

[Silverhair]

Would you agree that God is not obligated to save anyone in the first place? If so, is it unfair that He would only save some people?

Let’s say that it depends on our free will. Do you believe that someone born in the US into a Christian family has just as much of a chance as someone born in the Middle East into a Muslim family? How are both given equal chances to be saved if it’s up to them to make the right choice? Both have been placed into radically different circumstances where one has an advantage, the other does not.

There is grounds for boasting for the one that makes the right choice.

Excuse me but what does being fair have to do with salvation?

God does not have to be fair but He does have to be just. At least that is what the bible tells us about Him.
Rom 3:21 But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets,
Rom 3:22 even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all who believe. For there is no difference;
Rom 3:23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
Rom 3:24 being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus,
Rom 3:25 whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed,
Rom 3:26 to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.

God has provided the various means by which man can know of Him. This could be creation, the conviction of the Holy Spirit, hearing the gospel message or even dreams as many in what are called closed countries have attested to.

Those that want to know of God really have no excuse. The God that loves His creation has and continues to reach out to us. What is more amazing is that we in the west who have so many ways to know Him have rejected Him and in some cases have turned to other gods.

I do have to ask why do you think God is limited in how He can reach people

 

[Silverhair]

Not unless they are tares, sir ( Matthew 13 ).
Have you not read?

" All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
39 And this is the Father’s will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day."

Christ will not cast out any of His elect, Silverhair... He will raise every one of them up at the last day.
He will lose none of the ones His Father gave to Him.

" My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28 and I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any [man] pluck them out of my hand.
29 My Father, which gave [them] me, is greater than all; and no [man] is able to pluck [them] out of my Father’s hand."

His sheep do indeed follow Him, and they shall never perish.
God their Father is greater than all, and there is no one who can pluck them out of His hand.

Finally,
We are kept by His power, through faith unto that salvation, to the last day ( 1 Peter 1:5 ).
All of their trespasses are forgiven :

" And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
14 blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
15 [and] having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it." ( Colossians 2:13-15 )

You have just proven my point by your quotes.
Joh_6:37 "All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. "

Note this does not preclude them from turning away from Christ and denying Him thus casting aside their salvation.

Joh 6:39 "And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day."

Jesus lost Judas who had been given to Him Joh_17:12 By your view this could not happen.

Joh_10:28 "And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand."

And again as it says no man can snatch them away but it does not say they cannot leave of their own choice.
Heb 3:14 For we have become partakers of Christ, if we hold fast the beginning of our assurance firm until the end,

Note the condition of final salvation, continued FAITH.

1Pe 1:5 "who are protected by the power of God through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time."

You failed to see the obvious in this verse. We are protected, through faith, because we still believe. While Christ will carry us through, if we chose to leave Him He will not stop us as that would not be the loving thing to do. He will not keep us against our will.

 

[Rye]

Excuse me but what does being fair have to do with salvation?

If God were fair, then absolutely nobody would be saved.

Ephesians 2:3-5 - among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others. But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved).

God does not have to be fair but He does have to be just. At least that is what the bible tells us about Him.

Absolutely, God is just. However, we do not have the right to question His methods or demand that He show mercy to everyone.

Job 40:2-4 - Shall he that contendeth with the Almighty instruct him? He that reproveth God, let him answer it. Then Job answered the Lord, and said, Behold, I am vile; what shall I answer thee? I will lay mine hand upon my mouth.

Romans 9:15 - For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.

God has provided the various means by which man can know of Him. This could be creation, the conviction of the Holy Spirit, hearing the gospel message or even dreams as many in what are called closed countries have attested to.

There is no doubt that God has ordained the end and means as to how He draws the elect. This is why we are instructed the preach the Gospel to every creature under Heaven.

I do have to ask why do you think God is limited in how He can reach people

I do not believe God is limited by the choices made by His creatures. He will reach anyone that He intends to reach.

 

[Silverhair]

If God were fair, then absolutely nobody would be saved.

Ephesians 2:3-5 - among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others. But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved).



Absolutely, God is just. However, we do not have the right to question His methods or demand that He show mercy to everyone.

Job 40:2-4 - Shall he that contendeth with the Almighty instruct him? He that reproveth God, let him answer it. Then Job answered the Lord, and said, Behold, I am vile; what shall I answer thee? I will lay mine hand upon my mouth.

Romans 9:15 - For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.



There is no doubt that God has ordained the end and means as to how He draws the elect. This is why we are instructed the preach the Gospel to every creature under Heaven.



I do not believe God is limited by the choices made by His creatures. He will reach anyone that He intends to reach.

Care to explain how fair relates to salvation. If God were fair then all would be saved as that is what He desires. But God is not fair, He is just.

The one that is questioning His methods are those that deny free will. The bible is clear that He has provided the means for our salvation and that we are responsible for how we deal with those options. God has shown that He will have mercy on those that trust in Him, do you deny this?

God does not draw the elect, remember one is only elect when they are in the elect one Christ Jesus. God draws all people, even those that in the end will reject Him.

You say God is not limited and yet you hold to a theology that limits what God can do.

You need to take a closer look at the view you are holding to and compare it to scripture. You will find that your view is not biblical.

 

[KenH]

God wants all to be saved or do you not believe scripture?

I do believe God's Word and God's Word says that Christ died for His sheep, those chosen by God and given to Him to be their Surety before the foundation of the world, and all of Christ's sheep will be saved.

The god you seem to follow is not found in scripture but only in the writings of your fellow hyper cal's.

I believe in the God of the Bible. Your false god is an idol of your own imagination, who is not sovereign unless you allow him to be; your false christ didn't even save anyone at the cross; you don't believe the true Christ of the Bible when He said, "It is finished".

 

[KenH]

no one was in Christ before the foundation of the world.

The Bible says they were. I believe the Bible. I don't believe your false gospel in which there is no salvation.

 

[KenH]

So you admit that you version of god can not save all those He desires to save.

The God of the Bible will save everyone whom He gave to Christ to be their Surety before the foundation of the world. Your lack of belief in the God of the Bible does not change that. God is sovereign, not you, even though you think you are when it comes to the matter of salvation.

 

[KenH]

Are you saying that you trusted in God even before you were born?

God gave me to Christ, my Surety, back in eternity. God brought me under the hearing of the gospel of Christ about 3.5 years ago when I was around 65 and a half years old, the Holy Spirit regenerated me and granted me the gifts of faith in the finished work of Christ on my behalf and repentance of the dead works in which I previously trusted. Election happened back in eternity and is worked out through time on this earth in the lives of God's elect, chosen by God before the foundation of the world and given to Christ to be their Surety and bring them safely into His presence.

 

[KenH]

Why you continue to hold to your fiction in the face of scripture that shows your error is truly a mystery.

I believe God's Word.

It is not a mystery why people, such as yourself, don't believe God's Word, don't believe that Christ really meant, "It is finished":

1 Corinthians 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

 

[KenH]

This we can clearly see as not all are saved are they.

You believe that God is a failure. Your false gospel presents God as being a failure.

"Most often, adherents to this Catholic system of theology deny vehemently that they teach that their god is a failure. However, occasionally one of their preachers will say in words or substance, "God has done everything He can do to save you. The rest is up to you". Or perhaps their preaching takes the slant that you must "let God" do this or that in your life. If you do not "let God" He cannot accomplish His purpose in your life, according to the god-is-a-failure theory.

As further proof, we quote one prominent "Baptist" (BBF) preacher of some years ago as representative of this Thomist/Arminian view. He wrote, ". . . hell is a ghastly monument to the failure of the Triune God to save the multitudes who are there . . . sinners go to hell because God Almighty couldn't save them! He did all He could. He failed." [Noel Smith, "Universal Atonement," Defender Magazine, Springfield, MO., U.S.A., December, 1956]." - Is God a Failure?

 

[KenH]

A person actually trusting in God so that the Holy Spirit comes to dwell in them is biblical.
Act of the Apostles 8:37 If you believe with all your heart
Romans 10:13-14 whoever calls on the name of the LORD shall be saved
Ephesians 1:13 In Him...after you heard...the gospel...having believed, you were sealed

And why can we say this
Romans 1:16 the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes

All of God's elect will believe and will repent of dead works. By their own power? No! They will do by the power of God, the power of Christ, the power of the Holy Spirit:

Psalm 110:3 Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power,
In the beauties of holiness from the womb of the morning: Thou hast the dew of thy youth.

 

[Van]

The topics were certainly discussed in both of those posts. You just don't like the Bible teaching that salvation is 100% by the free, sovereign grace of Almighty God.

Your man-centered religion demands that you get some credit for your salvation by you doing something to "finish the job" that you don't think that Christ finished, even though Christ said on the cross, "It is finished."

Once again, the "taint so" crowd addresses fabricated flaws of posters, rather than the topic.

Did anyone say salvation was not 100% of our sovereign God? Nope. So deflection on display

Is claim salvation is 100% of our sovereign God "man-centered." Nope So more deflection on display

What did Christ mean when He said "It is finished?" That His mission of providing the means of salvation for all Humanity was finished. You bet!

Every saved individual once had not received mercy, therefore they were not chosen before their creation, because then they would have always received mercy from conception.

When God chooses an individual to be "His people" they become part of His people, and therefore to be "not a people" requires that sometime during their lifetime, they had not been individually chosen.

Thus 1 Peter 2:9-10 absolutely precludes anyone being chosen individually before creation. It is a lock no matter how much non-germane verbiage is posted.

When are our names written in the Lamb's book of life? When God chooses to credit our faith as righteousness and transfer us spiritually into Christ's spiritual body.

 

[Van]

How do you know that?

sn The phrase the scroll of the living occurs only here in the OT. It pictures a scroll or census list containing the names of the citizens of a community. When an individual died, that person’s name was removed from the list. So this curse is a very vivid way of asking that the enemies die.

 

[KenH]

What did Christ mean when He said "It is finished?" That His mission of providing the means of salvation for all Humanity was finished.

Christ meant that He had finished ALL of the work necessary to save the particular people, God's elect, who had been given to Him by God the Father before the foundation of the world to be their Surety and bring them into His presence.

"He said, it is finished; that is, the whole will of God; as that he should be incarnate, be exposed to shame and reproach, and suffer much, and die; the whole work his Father gave him to do, which was to preach the Gospel, work miracles, and obtain eternal salvation for his people, all which were now done, or as good as done; the whole righteousness of the law was fulfilled, an holy nature assumed, perfect obedience yielded to it, and the penalty of death endured; hence a perfect righteousness was finished agreeably to the law, which was magnified and made honourable by it, and redemption from its curse and condemnation secured; sin was made an end of, full atonement and satisfaction for it were given; complete pardon procured, peace made, and redemption from all iniquity obtained; all enemies were conquered; all types, promises, and prophecies were fulfilled, and his own course of life ended: the reason of his saying so was, because all this was near being done, just upon finishing, and was as good as done; and was sure and certain, and so complete, that nothing need, or could be added to it; and it was done entirely without the help of man, and cannot be undone; all which since has more clearly appeared by Christ's resurrection from the dead, his entrance into heaven, his session at God's right hand, the declaration of the Gospel, and the application of salvation to particular persons."

- excerpt from John Gill's Bible commentary on John 19:30

 

[KenH]

Every saved individual once had not received mercy, therefore they were not chosen before their creation, because then they would have always received mercy from conception.

See my post #83 above.

 

[KenH]

therefore to be "not a people" requires that sometime during their lifetime, they had not been individually chosen.

Election happened back in eternity and is worked out through time on this earth in the lives of God's elect, chosen by God before the foundation of the world and given to Christ to be their Surety and bring them safely into His presence.

God's elect are "not a people" during their time on earth prior to the Holy Spirit regenerating them and granting them the gifts of faith in Christ's finished work on their behalf and repentance of their dead works that they previously trust in.

They were always God's elect from eternity, but they are brought under the hearing of the gospel of Christ during their time on this earth and regenerated by the Holy Spirit. The elect's standing with God was set back in eternity, their state during their lives on this earth is what changes.

 

[KenH]

When are our names written in the Lamb's book of life?

See my post #2 above.

 

[KenH]

When God chooses to credit our faith as righteousness

What is credited(imputed, charged) to God's elect is the perfect righteousness of Christ, all of their sins having been credited(imputed, charged) to Christ.

2 Corinthians 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

 

[KenH]

Did anyone say salvation was not 100% of our sovereign God?

Yet folks like you who condition salvation in some fashion, to some extent, on man's performance, do not believe that salvation is 100% by the free, sovereign grace of Almighty God, as folks like you think that you have to "finish the job" of what Christ started, as you do not believe that anyone was actually saved at the cross by Christ's finished work.