When did Abraham become the father of many nations?

[Dave...]

Covenant promise made to Abraham in the OT dispensation.

Genesis 17:4 "As for Me, behold, My covenant is with you, and you shall be a father of many nations.

Covenant promise made to Abraham and fulfilled and ushered in the NT dispensation.

Matthew 28:18-20 And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, "All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age." Amen.

John 12:32 And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all peoples to Myself."

Acts 10:34-35 Then Peter opened his mouth and said: "In truth I perceive that God shows no partiality. But in every nation whoever fears Him and works righteousness is accepted by Him.

Through the prophesied Seed, Jesus. Galatians 3.

The Promised Seed, and His death resurrection and ascension began the birth of the church at Pentecost, and was the beginning of the realization of that covenant promise to Abraham. Dead OT believers [including those from other nations, like Nineveh) were kept in Abrahams bosom until the Seed came and died, rose, and ascended, Jesus taking them with Him to the third heaven. OT believers [from other nations] who were still alive eventually heard the Gospel and believed, as recorded in Acts, as they were predestined to do (Romans 8:28-30).

When salvation began to be realized at Pentecost with the giving of the Holy Spirit, allowing believers to realize the promise of the Father, so did the covenant promise made to Abraham begin to be realized.

Two dispensations, and one covenant, in both promise, and the realization of that promise. All working in harmony.

Any thoughts?

 

[Deacon]

The promise in Genesis 17:4 to Abraham was that he would become “the father of many nations."
Abraham's biological descendants included Isaac and Ishmael, the descendants of Abraham’s concubine Keturah, (Zimran, Jokshan, Medan, Midian, Ishbak, and Shuah (Genesis 25:1-4).

Ishmael, (Abraham's firstborn by Hagar), was the father of twelve "princes" (Genesis 25:12-18).
And the Edomites descended from Isaac's firstborn, Esau, Jacob’s twin brother.
The nation of Israel represents the primary fulfillment of the promise to Abraham through his son Isaac (and grandson Jacob).

God's covenant promise was extended to Abraham's wife, Sarah (Genesis 17:16); "I will bless her, and she shall become nations; kings of peoples shall come from her.”

Sarah bore Isaac; his two sons produced nations; Esau (the Edomites - Genesis 36) and Jacob (Israel - Genesis 35:11).

The NT authors recognized Abraham's promise could be extended to more than just Abraham's physical dependents.
They extended the promise to those of like faith (c.f. Romans 4:1-25; Galatians 3:7-9; 15-18)

Galatians 3:7 (ESV) "Know then that it is those of faith who are the sons of Abraham."

So metaphorically, Abraham became the spiritual father of all Gentiles (peoples of all nations) who follow after Christ in faith.

The term you use, "dispensation" carries baggage that some may react negatively to, however a Reformed, "Covenant" brother would agree with the general concept.

Rob

 

[Dave...]

The promise in Genesis 17:4 to Abraham was that he would become “the father of many nations."
Abraham's biological descendants included Isaac and Ishmael, the descendants of Abraham’s concubine Keturah, (Zimran, Jokshan, Medan, Midian, Ishbak, and Shuah (Genesis 25:1-4).

Ishmael, (Abraham's firstborn by Hagar), was the father of twelve "princes" (Genesis 25:12-18).
And the Edomites descended from Isaac's firstborn, Esau, Jacob’s twin brother.
The nation of Israel represents the primary fulfillment of the promise to Abraham through his son Isaac (and grandson Jacob).

God's covenant promise was extended to Abraham's wife, Sarah (Genesis 17:16); "I will bless her, and she shall become nations; kings of peoples shall come from her.”

Sarah bore Isaac; his two sons produced nations; Esau (the Edomites - Genesis 36) and Jacob (Israel - Genesis 35:11).

The NT authors recognized Abraham's promise could be extended to more than just Abraham's physical dependents.
They extended the promise to those of like faith (c.f. Romans 4:1-25; Galatians 3:7-9; 15-18)

Galatians 3:7 (ESV) "Know then that it is those of faith who are the sons of Abraham."

So metaphorically, Abraham became the spiritual father of all Gentiles (peoples of all nations) who follow after Christ in faith.

The term you use, "dispensation" carries baggage that some may react negatively to, however a Reformed, "Covenant" brother would agree with the general concept.

Rob

Hey Rob

Thanks for the reply

I think it's interesting that at Pentecost, the Proselytes and dispersed Jews who gathered there from all the [geographically] Gentile nations that were listed, took that presence of God and the Gospel with them back to those same Gentile nations, because they believed the Gospel and received the indwelling Holy Spirit. God's presence moves from one building in the OT, to many living Temples in the NT. Reversing the curse from Babylon. And in Acts 2 we can see Abrahams promise to be father of all nations start to be realized through Jesus, the Seed, with the Spirit of Christ indwelling (John 14:16-20, Romans 8:9-11).

Acts 2"1-11 When the Day of Pentecost had fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. And suddenly there came a sound from heaven, as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled the whole house where they were sitting. Then there appeared to them divided tongues, as of fire, and one sat upon each of them. And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance. And there were dwelling in Jerusalem Jews, devout men, from every nation under heaven. And when this sound occurred, the multitude came together, and were confused, because everyone heard them speak in his own language. Then they were all amazed and marveled, saying to one another, "Look, are not all these who speak Galileans? And how is it that we hear, each in our own language in which we were born? Parthians and Medes and Elamites, those dwelling in Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia, Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya adjoining Cyrene, visitors from Rome, both Jews and proselytes, Cretans and Arabs--we hear them speaking in our own tongues the wonderful works of God."

I believe that the "light" is how God draws people, through His presence and His Word.

Jesus said this.

John 12:34-36 The people answered Him, "We have heard from the law that the Christ remains forever; and how can You say, 'The Son of Man must be lifted up'? Who is this Son of Man?" Then Jesus said to them, "A little while longer the light is with you. Walk while you have the light, lest darkness overtake you; he who walks in darkness does not know where he is going. While you have the light, believe in the light, that you may become sons of light." These things Jesus spoke, and departed, and was hidden from them.

What Does the Bible Say About Light?

Bible verses about Light

www.openbible.info

The light both draws people and reveals our sin. Interesting, that the Letter of the Law only did the latter. The light is the basis for our drawing people, but also the basis for our persecution.

Anyways, this is how Abraham's promise to be the father of many nations began to be realized.

 

[Dave...]

I'm just thinking out loud here. I wanted to write this down before I forgot my train of thought.

Jonah, when at Nineveh, had the "Word of God" with Him. Is that Jesus' presence before the Word became flesh? In the beginning was the Word, and the Word became flesh...(John 1:1-3, 1:14). It reads that way, not just a written word, but it's written in that book as if an actual dialog is taking place. Revelation?

Jonah 3:1-3 Now the word of the Lord came to Jonah the second time, saying, "Arise, go to Nineveh, that great city, and preach to it the message that I tell you." So Jonah arose and went to Nineveh, according to the word of the Lord. Now Nineveh was an exceedingly great city, a three-day journey in extent.

It's also an interesting thought because Jonah was a type of Jesus. I believe that the Gentiles who repented there are a type of the Gentile nations that would hear the Gospel after Pentecost and believe. The presence of God was there, in Word? Or described as "Word".

Taking me full circle back to (John 12:35-36, 46) The light.

Isaiah 42:6-7 "I, the Lord, have called You in righteousness, And will hold Your hand; I will keep You and give You as a covenant to the people, As a light to the Gentiles, To open blind eyes, To bring out prisoners from the prison, Those who sit in darkness from the prison house. (John 1:1-11)

Isaiah 49:6 Indeed He says, 'It is too small a thing that You should be My Servant To raise up the tribes of Jacob, And to restore the preserved ones of Israel; I will also give You as a light to the Gentiles, That You should be My salvation to the ends of the earth.' "

Above, "You" was used three times is Jesus? , and "My" is the Father? Jesus was a promised "Light" to the Gentiles. Is that speaking of Pentecost, when salvation came to the Gentiles from the promised indwelling of the Holy Spirit, just like the Jews? That light is to indwell believers. Below.

Matthew 5:14-16 You are the light of the world. A city that is set on a hill cannot be hidden. Nor do they light a lamp and put it under a basket, but on a lampstand, and it gives light to all who are in the house. Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works and glorify your Father in heaven.

The light is still an outside source for the disciples. (John 12:35-36)

He is with them and will be in them. (John 14:17)

Is the "power" the light indwelling?

OT- Acts 1:8 But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be witnesses to Me in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth."

NT Romans 13:12-14 The night is far spent, the day is at hand. Therefore let us cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armor of light. Let us walk properly, as in the day, not in revelry and drunkenness, not in lewdness and lust, not in strife and envy. But put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make no provision for the flesh, to fulfill

Revelation 21:22-24 But I saw no temple in it, for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple. The city had no need of the sun or of the moon to shine in it, for the glory of God illuminated it. The Lamb is its light. And the nations of those who are saved shall walk in its light, and the kings of the earth bring their glory and honor into it.

Acts 9:3, 12:7, 13:47, 22:6,11, 26:13,18,23