When Did Abraham Inherit the Promise?

[percho]

I will, after you. What would you say, knowing there are two resurrections? Pretend there is no Premillennial fog.

But every man in his own order:
Christ the firstfruit; One man, singular, took place three days after he commended his spirit into the hands of his Father.
afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. Rev 20 calls these, at his coming, as being the first resurrection. That is when Paul and Abraham will be resurrected. IMHO

Those, are Christ's, of 1 C 15:24 are those who were indwelt with the Holy Spirit for the purpose of Rom 8:11, 23

But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life. Titus 3:7 Heirs not yet inheritors. Again IMHO.

 

[37818]

Jesus said the parable of the rich man & Lazarus as Abraham's bosom aka Paradise was not up in Heaven yet. Luke 16:19-31.

Not a parable. It is a true account in that Abraham, Moses and the prophets are being mentioned.

 

[Yeshua1]

Clarity is needed, brother. Are you referring to the "Him" to Abraham or to Jesus Christ?

Abraham!

 

[Hark]

But every man in his own order:
Christ the firstfruit; One man, singular, took place three days after he commended his spirit into the hands of his Father.
afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. Rev 20 calls these, at his coming, as being the first resurrection. That is when Paul and Abraham will be resurrected. IMHO

Those, are Christ's, of 1 C 15:24 are those who were indwelt with the Holy Spirit for the purpose of Rom 8:11, 23

But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life. Titus 3:7 Heirs not yet inheritors. Again IMHO.

What Bible version are you using because Christ the firstfruits is plural.

1 Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

There is no need to establish an order for man unless there were 2 kinds of resurrection. If there was no order for man, then there would be only one resurrection for man.

But do note firstfruits is plural as including an order of men as firstfruits with Christ at the rapture event when He comes as the Bridegroom whereas He will be coming as the King of kings to they that be Christ's at His coming as He will be on earth, after defeating the world's armies with Satan in the pit for a thousand years BEFORE He resurrects those as coming out of the great tribulation to serve him as King of kings on earth per Revelation 20:1-6

 

[Hark]

Abraham!

Thanks for clarification. You had "Him" capitalized as a typo so I was wondering. I do typos too for why I had to ask for clarification from you. I also can lose track of the discussion. Thank you again.

 

[Hark]

Not a parable. It is a true account in that Abraham, Moses and the prophets are being mentioned.

Does Jesus always notify others when He is about to share a parable? I believe He is sharing the truth, but it is not always announced as a parable either. Luke 14:15-24 is an example when obviously, this rapture event has yet to happen.

 

[Yeshua1]

In regards to the context of Hebrews 11:13-16 to Abraham.

It was Yeshua1 reply that had "Him" capitalized for seemingly going off topic in the progress of the discussion for why I had asked him for clarity.



But I do know what you meant in referring to Christ as the promised seed, because there is a promise to Him regarding Him as that seed Psalm 89:20-37 by using David as a symbolism to Christ in regards to the prophesied New Covenant by that seed of Christ..

Not seed of Christ, but of Abraham!

 

[1689Dave]

Abraham had not received the promise yet when Jesus was on earth.

Hebrews 11:13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth. 14 For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country. 15 And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned. 16 But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.

1 Samuel 28:6-20 has the spirit of Samuel brought up from beneath the earth for where Abraham's bosom aka Paradise was at.

That was why Jesus said the parable of the rich man & Lazarus as Abraham's bosom aka Paradise was not up in Heaven yet. Luke 16:19-31.

He told the thief that he would be with Him in Paradise that day. Luke 23:43 He descended after His death for that purpose of preaching to those in prison ( 1 Peter 3:18-19 ) so that He may bring them to God. Ephesians 4:7-10

They were resurrected after His resurrection; Matthew 27:52-53 where now after His ascension, Paradise is in Heaven. 2 Corinthians 12;2-4 of which I believe Paul was speaking about the apostle John & the Book of Revelation where in that Book of Revelation, Jesus has the keys of hell & death. Revelation 1:17-18

So after His ascension, Abraham & O.T. saints are with God but still awaiting the Marriage Supper of the Lamb when Jesus is done preparing the places for the firstfruits of the resurrection.

Abraham saw the promise of Canaan as a symbol of something far greater. Heave and possibly the new heavens and earth. If you think of it, Cannan could not contain the immensity of the promises. The carnal Jews of course saw the symbol as the reality rather than what it represents. And so it is today, blind to the spiritual truth, people still expect a "premillennial" kingdom, thereby rejecting the gospel of the kingdom.

 

[37818]

Does Jesus always notify others when He is about to share a parable? I believe He is sharing the truth, but it is not always announced as a parable either. Luke 14:15-24 is an example when obviously, this rapture event has yet to happen.

What did Jesus teach to His disciples as to whom taught in parables and why?Luke 8:9-10. Note the context Luke gave, Luke 14:7-24.

 

[Hark]

Abraham saw the promise of Canaan as a symbol of something far greater. Heave and possibly the new heavens and earth. If you think of it, Cannan could not contain the immensity of the promises. The carnal Jews of course saw the symbol as the reality rather than what it represents. And so it is today, blind to the spiritual truth, people still expect a "premillennial" kingdom, thereby rejecting the gospel of the kingdom.

Yes.. that is what I understood as he was seeking a better country not in Canaan but in Heaven.

Hebrews 11:13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth. 14 For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country. 15 And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned. 16 But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city. KJV\\\

Thanks for sharing.

 

[Hark]

Not seed of Christ, but of Abraham!

Yes, I understand that is what you had meant now. Thank you for clarifying earlier.

 

[Hark]

What did Jesus teach to His disciples as to whom taught in parables and why?Luke 8:9-10. Note the context Luke gave, Luke 14:7-24.

Thank you for sharing that, but I note verse 15 as an event that suggests the end of that parable in verse 14. Note how He starts verse 16 without anything mentioned that He was telling another parable.

My point is He does not always announce He is telling a parable, but one can recognize it as a parable with His help in discerning this..

 

[Aaron]

But every man in his own order:
Christ the firstfruit; One man, singular, took place three days after he commended his spirit into the hands of his Father.
afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. Rev 20 calls these, at his coming, as being the first resurrection. That is when Paul and Abraham will be resurrected. IMHO

Those, are Christ's, of 1 C 15:24 are those who were indwelt with the Holy Spirit for the purpose of Rom 8:11, 23

But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life. Titus 3:7 Heirs not yet inheritors. Again IMHO.

Ephesians 2:6 and Colossians 2:12 are no less true, and are reconciled by rejecting the Premillennial explanations of Revelation.

In earth, we are born again--of God. We aren't merely restored to the original state of innocence that Adam knew. We, unlike him, are begotten of God; partakers of the divine nature, which is an eternal nature. We are raised with Him. We cannot sin ( 1 John 3:9 ) . None of these things are seen, but they are eternal truths none the less. What you are saying about our day-to-day, moment-by-moment, temporal experiences are true, too. There will be a resurrection of the body. But, the work of Redemption is finished. Abraham is not being held in a half-way house somewhere in an unglorified state, waiting for things to happen. He has received the Promises in full.

 

[37818]

Thank you for sharing that, but I note verse 15 as an event that suggests the end of that parable in verse 14. Note how He starts verse 16 without anything mentioned that He was telling another parable.

My point is He does not always announce He is telling a parable, but one can recognize it as a parable with His help in discerning this..

Again, who did Jesus tell His disciples as to whom He would tell parables to?

 

[Hark]

Again, who did Jesus tell His disciples as to whom He would tell parables to?

Everyone but to whom it is given are the ones to understand the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven.

Matthew 13:10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables? 11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given. 12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath. 13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand. 14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive: 15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them. 16 But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear. 17 For verily I say unto you, That many prophets and righteous men have desired to see those things which ye see, and have not seen them; and to hear those things which ye hear, and have not heard them. 18 Hear ye therefore the parable of the sower...

Reads to me that He speaks this to everyone including His disciples as the ones that hear & see understand the parables.

 

[percho]

What Bible version are you using because Christ the firstfruits is plural.

1 Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

There is no need to establish an order for man unless there were 2 kinds of resurrection. If there was no order for man, then there would be only one resurrection for man.

But do note firstfruits is plural as including an order of men as firstfruits with Christ at the rapture event when He comes as the Bridegroom whereas He will be coming as the King of kings to they that be Christ's at His coming as He will be on earth, after defeating the world's armies with Satan in the pit for a thousand years BEFORE He resurrects those as coming out of the great tribulation to serve him as King of kings on earth per Revelation 20:1-6

15:23 ἕκαστος δὲ ἐν τῷ ἰδίῳ τάγματι· ἀπαρχὴ Χριστός ἔπειτα οἱ Χριστοῦ ἐν τῇ παρουσίᾳ αὐτοῦ

Inflected: ἀπαρχὴ
Root: ἀπαρχή

Strong's: G536
Language: Greek
Code: N-NSF
Long: Noun - Nominative Singular Feminine
Speech: Noun
Case: Nominative
Number: Singular -----------------
Gender: Feminine

 

[Hark]

15:23 ἕκαστος δὲ ἐν τῷ ἰδίῳ τάγματι· ἀπαρχὴ Χριστός ἔπειτα οἱ Χριστοῦ ἐν τῇ παρουσίᾳ αὐτοῦ

Inflected: ἀπαρχὴ
Root: ἀπαρχή

Strong's: G536
Language: Greek
Code: N-NSF
Long: Noun - Nominative Singular Feminine
Speech: Noun
Case: Nominative
Number: Singular -----------------
Gender: Feminine

Still see that s at the end of firstfruits. Don't you?

 

[37818]

Reads to me that He speaks this to everyone including His disciples as the ones that hear & see understand the parables.

Well, that being said, we do not agree in our understanding on Jesus' reason for teaching in parables. And does not require a true story to be a parable.

 

[percho]

Still see that s at the end of firstfruits. Don't you?

Hark Translators may have put a, s, on the end but the word is singular.

Check any literal translation.

NLT has the correct concept. But there is an order to this resurrection: Christ was raised as the first of the harvest; then all who belong to Christ will be raised when he comes back.

 

[percho]

Ephesians 2:6 and Colossians 2:12 are no less true, and are reconciled by rejecting the Premillennial explanations of Revelation.

In earth, we are born again--of God. We aren't merely restored to the original state of innocence that Adam knew. We, unlike him, are begotten of God; partakers of the divine nature, which is an eternal nature. We are raised with Him. We cannot sin ( 1 John 3:9 ) . None of these things are seen, but they are eternal truths none the less. What you are saying about our day-to-day, moment-by-moment, temporal experiences are true, too. There will be a resurrection of the body. But, the work of Redemption is finished. Abraham is not being held in a half-way house somewhere in an unglorified state, waiting for things to happen. He has received the Promises in full.

When did Abraham inherit the promise? OP

YLT Romans 4:13 For not through law. the promise to Abraham, or to his seed, of his being heir of the world, but through the righteousness of faith; --------- Was it possible for the flesh and blood Abraham to inherit the world or would for him to inherit the world require him to be raised out of the dead? Was it possible for Abraham to inherit the world before his seed (singular) inherited the promise. Is Jesus, the one brought forth by the virgin Mary, the one God (the Father) appointed heir of all things. the seed (singular) of Abraham? ----- Was Abraham sinless? Was the seed of Abraham sinless? Was the seed of Abraham obedient unto death even the death of the cross? Is that, obedience unto death, what brought our redemption and was it because of, our redemption, the seed of Abraham was raised out of the dead.

2 Tim 2:8 Remember Jesus Christ, raised out of the dead, of the seed of David, according to my good news,

Has the seed of David, the seed of Abraham inherited the world? ----- When?

John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. Is that in bold a post resurrection statement? Consider: John 17:5 'And now, glorify me, Thou Father, with Thyself, with the glory that I had before the world was, with Thee; John 7:39 and this he said of the Spirit, which those believing in him were about to receive; for not yet was the Holy Spirit, because Jesus was not yet glorified.
Romans 1:3,4 concerning His Son, (who is come of the seed of David according to the flesh, who is marked out Son of God in power, according to the Spirit of sanctification, by the rising again from the dead,) Jesus Christ our Lord;

When will father Abraham inherit the world? Will it be at next coming of his seed?

Luke 20:34-38 YLT And Jesus answering said to them, 'The sons of this age do marry and are given in marriage, but those accounted worthy to obtain that age, and the rising again that is out of the dead, neither marry, nor are they given in marriage; for neither are they able to die any more -- for they are like messengers -- and they are sons of God, being sons of the rising again. 'And that the dead are raised, even Moses shewed at the Bush, since he doth call the Lord, the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob; and He is not a God of dead men, but of living, for all live to Him.'

Abraham will inherit the promise and be inheritor of the world, in the next age, at the coming of Jesus and the resurrection of those that are Christ's.

I M H O