When Did idea of Pre trib rapture Come Into Church?

[webdog]

Wrath (of God) and tribulation (of the church) aren't the same thing. Wrath is still to come, but tribulation has been happening for centuries now. Wrath is from God and tribulation is from humanity.

The Bible makes a clear distincion between trials and tribulations and the great tribulation, aka, the time of Jacob's trouble. At any rate the great tribulations is God's wrath, and the point still stands that His wrath would be upon His Son twice in anything but the pretrib view

 

[Iconoclast]

The Bible makes a clear distincion between trials and tribulations and the great tribulation, aka, the time of Jacob's trouble. At any rate the great tribulations is God's wrath, and the point still stands that His wrath would be upon His Son twice in anything but the pretrib view

Nothing ties Jer 30:7.....with anything future:wavey:

 

[webdog]

Nothing ties Jer 30:7.....with anything future:wavey:

Of course it does, but anyone rejecting my position would have to say otherwise.

 

[beameup]

Nothing ties Jer 30:7.....with anything future:wavey:

Jeremiah 30:4-11 deals with Jacob. Jacob is genetic Israel. Over half of the Jews in the world are already gathered in the Holy Land.
But they shall serve the LORD their God, and David their king [Messiah], whom I will raise up unto them. v. 9

Therefore fear thou not, O my servant Jacob, saith the LORD; neither be dismayed, O Israel: for, lo, I will save thee from afar,
and thy seed from the land of their captivity; and Jacob shall return, [to the Holy Land] and shall be in rest, and be quiet, and none shall make him afraid.

 

[Iconoclast]

Of course it does, but anyone rejecting my position would have to say otherwise.

Does any Nt writer quote this verse?...How do you know that 70ad did not fulfill this entirely?

You said this:

The Bible makes a clear distincion between trials and tribulations and the great tribulation, aka, the time of Jacob's trouble. At any rate the great tribulations is God's wrath, and the point still stands that His wrath would be upon His Son twice in anything but the pretrib view

Where do you believe you see this...as yet future? where are these clear distinctions???in the bible???/ I know little prophecy books like to quote jer 30:7....but with no support.

 

[Iconoclast]

Jeremiah 30:4-11 deals with Jacob. Jacob is genetic Israel. Over half of the Jews in the world are already gathered in the Holy Land.
But they shall serve the LORD their God, and David their king [Messiah], whom I will raise up unto them. v. 9

Therefore fear thou not, O my servant Jacob, saith the LORD; neither be dismayed, O Israel: for, lo, I will save thee from afar,
and thy seed from the land of their captivity; and Jacob shall return, [to the Holy Land] and shall be in rest, and be quiet, and none shall make him afraid.

How are you attempting to use vs 9 to support the idea of jacob serving the messiah, and yet it being the time of jacobs trouble...yet future...??

 

[beameup]

Jer 30:7-9
Alas! for that day is great, so that none is like it: it is even the time of Jacob's trouble; but he [Jacob, genetic Israelites] shall be saved out of it.

For it shall come to pass in that day, saith the LORD of hosts, that I will break his yoke from off thy neck, and will burst thy bonds
, and strangers shall no more serve themselves of him: But they [Jacob - genetic Israelites] shall serve the LORD their God, and David their king [Jesus],
whom I will raise up unto them.

"Jacob's Trouble" will bring about salvation for all Jews that are left alive at the end of the Great Tribulation, they will recognize their great sin,
Messiah will return, and they will serve him in the Land of Israel
I will cause them to return to the land that I gave to their fathers [the Nation of Israel]. Jer 30:3b