The daughter inheritance deal is a very good point.
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When did Job live?
- Thread starter rlvaughn
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- old testament
Two questions.
Where was Uz ? Was there a temple or tabernacle anywhere near them ? (My source tells me near Edom). Could that be the reason we don't hear anything about them ?
Also, The Leviathan later in the book. Is this Egypt ?
Where was Uz ? Was there a temple or tabernacle anywhere near them ? (My source tells me near Edom). Could that be the reason we don't hear anything about them ?
Also, The Leviathan later in the book. Is this Egypt ?
.....
That must be another way of saying that you have no answer. You made an early error in this thread. Instead of acknowledging that, you are ignoring the fact.
The answer is that we are not told when Job lived. I am aware of three distinct theories for when he lived. None of the three can be proven nor can they be disproven.
Many see him as at time of the Patriarchates of the OT, as he was the priest of his own family, and seems no law given yet!
maybe a contemporary of Abraham...
Genesis 26:5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.
In this passage:
Hebrew
commandments : Mitzvah
statutes : Chuqqah
Laws : Torah
These are ALL words used of the codified word of God of the Old Covenant.
In all probability Abraham had a traditional written "Torah" handed down through the line of Seth or received directly from Jehovah.
My opinion of course but an opinion based upon the words used in this text.
If not how then did Abraham know what those commandments, statutes and laws were in order to keep them?
HankD
In this passage:
Hebrew
commandments : Mitzvah
statutes : Chuqqah
Laws : Torah
These are ALL words used of the codified word of God of the Old Covenant.
In all probability Abraham had a traditional written "Torah" handed down through the line of Seth or received directly from Jehovah.
My opinion of course but an opinion based upon the words used in this text.
If not how then did Abraham know what those commandments, statutes and laws were in order to keep them?
HankD
This is what I was taught, and I still hold it -- not really as a matter of knowledge or conviction, but just that no one has come along to shatter the idea in any way.
This year I decided to borrow/use the Blue Letter Bible Chronological Daily Bible Reading Plan for my through the Bible reading. This plan places reading the book of Job after Genesis 11, which is what got me interested in Job's place in the biblical timeline. That said, I don't think we need to know that to understand the point of the book.
Whatevs. I stated an opinion of the OP and have approached this entire thread hoping to learn.
As for me, I don’t have enough information, or don’t understand how to put all the information together, in order to know when Job lived. I find it interesting research, though. What follows are some things I have found and some things others say, which may or may not cause a light to go off in someone’s head!
- In his third speech, Eliphaz refers to the flood in the past (Job 22:15-16).
- The Hebrew word for the piece of money in Job 42:11 is kesitah. This word is only used 3 times in the Old Testament, here and in Genesis 33:19 and Joshua 24:32. In those places it refers to the money Jacob used to purchase a parcel of land from the sons of Hamor. The use of the same word in Job might suggest patriarchal times somewhat contemporary with Jacob.
- Based on some of his statements, Job was not young when his calamity struck (Cf. Job 12:12-13; Job 30:1). Job lived another 140 years after his affliction or after the birth of his second ten children (Job 42:16) – making it likely that he lived 200 years or even longer. This is longer than Abraham and compares to some patriarchs prior to Abraham. Yet, Job 42:17 might suggest his length of days was longer than his contemporaries.
- Job’s daughters receiving an equal inheritance with the sons is not according to the law of Moses (Cf. Numbers 27:8 and Job 42:15).
- Job lived in the land of Uz (Job 1:1), which has never been connected to the land of Canaan (as far as I know).
- Job was called a man of the east in Job 1:3.
- Job seems to be a man of high position (Cf. Job 29:7-25), which may be inconsistent with nomads in the land of Canaan.
- God’s testimony is that Job was an unique God-fearing man for his time (Cf. Job 1:8; Job 2:3; Ezekiel 14:14, 20), which might mean he wasn’t contemporary with Abraham or Isaac (earlier) or Moses (later).
- Lamentations 4:21 identifies Edom in the land of Uz. A man named Uz is a grandson of Seir the Horite. See Genesis 36:20-28. Verse 8 of this chapter says Esau dwelt in Mount Seir. (The land of Uz is also mentioned in Jeremiah 25:20).
- Esau had a son named Eliphaz, and Eliphaz had a son named Teman (Genesis 36:10-11; 1 Chronicles 1:35-36; Cf. Job 2:11).
- Some people identify Job with Jobab great-grandson of Esau, the second king of Edom (Cf. Genesis 36:32-34 and 1 Chronicles 1:43-45).
- Some people believe Bildad the Shuhite was a descendant of Shuah, Abraham’s son by Keturah (Genesis 25:1-3; 1 Chronicles 1:31-33).
- Some people believe that the Buzites (Job 32:2) were descendants of Buz, son of Nahor Abraham’s brother (Genesis 22:20-22).
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If you can't defend your position it is probably best to drop out of the discussion.
"You're wrong" is not an argument. It is an accusation.
I agree with rlvaughn.
First, Job was post diluvian. Eliphaz asked: “Will you keep to the old way which wicked men have trod, who were cut down before their time, whose foundations were swept away by a flood?” (Job 22:16).
Job was pre-Moses. In the book of Job, there is no mention of the Levitical priesthood, the tabernacle, the temple, the Law of Moses, etc.
As has already been mentioned, under the Law (Numbers 27:1-11; 36:1-13) inheritance could only pass to a daughter if there were no sons. Job had sons yet passed a portion of his inheritance to his daughters. That make Job Pre-law.
The patriarchs measured their wealth in livestock owned, not in money, as did Job (Job 1:3; 42:12).
Jobs age is in keeping with the patriarchs. He lived long enough to gain great wealth, and raise 10 children to adulthood. After the death of his children and the loss of his wealth, he lived long enough to regain great wealth and raise 10 more children to adulthood. And after that “After this Job lived one hundred and forty years, and saw his children and grandchildren for four generations. So Job died, old and full of days” (42:10-17). So, Job lived well into his 200s or even beyond. The Septuagint says that Job died at the age of 240, an age more comparable to the ancestors of Abraham (e.g., Serug, Abraham’s great-grandfather lived to be 230—Genesis 11:22-23).
QED. Job was post-diluvian and either pre or contemporary to Abraham.
First, Job was post diluvian. Eliphaz asked: “Will you keep to the old way which wicked men have trod, who were cut down before their time, whose foundations were swept away by a flood?” (Job 22:16).
Job was pre-Moses. In the book of Job, there is no mention of the Levitical priesthood, the tabernacle, the temple, the Law of Moses, etc.
As has already been mentioned, under the Law (Numbers 27:1-11; 36:1-13) inheritance could only pass to a daughter if there were no sons. Job had sons yet passed a portion of his inheritance to his daughters. That make Job Pre-law.
The patriarchs measured their wealth in livestock owned, not in money, as did Job (Job 1:3; 42:12).
Jobs age is in keeping with the patriarchs. He lived long enough to gain great wealth, and raise 10 children to adulthood. After the death of his children and the loss of his wealth, he lived long enough to regain great wealth and raise 10 more children to adulthood. And after that “After this Job lived one hundred and forty years, and saw his children and grandchildren for four generations. So Job died, old and full of days” (42:10-17). So, Job lived well into his 200s or even beyond. The Septuagint says that Job died at the age of 240, an age more comparable to the ancestors of Abraham (e.g., Serug, Abraham’s great-grandfather lived to be 230—Genesis 11:22-23).
QED. Job was post-diluvian and either pre or contemporary to Abraham.
What I should have done is put a question mark at the end of my statements. Like you did. As we can never really know, there is nothing to defend.
I'm very comfortable with these facts, though I certainly wouldn't mind nailing it down a little closer.
It is interesting that the Septuagint commentary/addition at the end of chapter 42 also connects Job to Esau.
I don't accept that as inspired Scripture, and even the Septuagint seems to make it something of a footnote..."This man is described in the Syriac book..." It's still interesting that someone back then connected him to Esau.
I think the hardest part I have accepting him that far down from Esau is his length of age. The hardest part I have placing him contemporary with Abraham is God's commentary, "my servant Job...there is none like him in the earth..." I don't suppose that is an impossible statement in Abraham's lifetime, but it still seems less likely to me.
That is one of the reasons I place him as most likely pre-Abraham. Although I won't quibble with the contemporary position.
Brethren, brethren, brethren!... All I know that is there was a man named Job who lived in the land of UZ!... Now you can discern from scripture when he lived but the fact of the matter is not when he lived but that he did... There are some circles that say he never existed as there is no record of him ever found... But if I'm not mistaken I believe that the city of Uz was discovered by biblical archeologist... If some of you brethren find that post it here... To me the book of Job all 42 chapters is one of the most inspiring books of the OT as I believe we can relate to Job and what he went through... What if the translators left out the book of Job?... There is so much instruction in the book of Job for us... So did God reveal when Job lived?... Don't know... He never told us what Paul's thorn in the flesh was either... Ah but we speculate!... We're good at that!... But remember this scripture from Deuteronomy when you do!... Brother Glen
Deuteronomy 29:29 The secret things belong unto the LORD our God: but those things which are revealed belong unto us and to our children for ever, that we may do all the words of this law.
I just added this link that you might find interesting !
Where Was The Land Of Uz?
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There are three men in the bible named Uz. In Genesis, Uz is the son of Aram, a direct descendant of Shem. (Genesis 10:23)
In Genesis 36:28 and 1 Chronicles 1:42, Uz is a son of Dishan.
In 1 Chronicles 1:17, Uz is a son of Shem.
The last one is least likely as that would make him antediluvian.
The second one is equally unlikely as he would then have been a contemporary of the three patriarchs.
The first one would make him a grandson of Shem and thus antediluvian.
So, it would appear that the mention of the Land of Uz is a reference to the north and east of the Promised Land and might well have been near or around what later became the city of Damascus, where a long tradition exists that said city is, in fact, the old capital of Uz, and there is a present day monastery that includes a tribute to the area's most important personage, Uz.
In Genesis 36:28 and 1 Chronicles 1:42, Uz is a son of Dishan.
In 1 Chronicles 1:17, Uz is a son of Shem.
The last one is least likely as that would make him antediluvian.
The second one is equally unlikely as he would then have been a contemporary of the three patriarchs.
The first one would make him a grandson of Shem and thus antediluvian.
So, it would appear that the mention of the Land of Uz is a reference to the north and east of the Promised Land and might well have been near or around what later became the city of Damascus, where a long tradition exists that said city is, in fact, the old capital of Uz, and there is a present day monastery that includes a tribute to the area's most important personage, Uz.
???
All we can be sure of is that Buz is not related to Buz Lightyear.