Featured When Did the Church Begin?

I would agree. However, without the empowering there is no church. Otherwise it is a dead church. What I have shown consistently is that believers are indwelt since Pentecost. Whereas they were not before. And that is a significant difference.

 

The church began the day that 3000 souls were saved and baptized by the preaching of the gospel through the power of the Holy Spirit by the men who are the foundation of the church, with Christ as the chief cornerstone.

AKA, Pentecost. Acts 2

 

The ordinances issue is questionable. Did they ever have the Lord's Supper outside of the one time with Jesus before Pentecost? And baptist before the Lords ascencison was a different baptism. Did they ever practice baptism between Christ ascension and Pentecost?

 

Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole. This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner. Acts 4:10,11

And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence. Col 1:18

This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses. Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear. Acts 2:32,33

and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost,

Is that when Jesus became the head of the corner?

he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.

Is that when be begin to build his assembly of called out ones?

 

I believe Scripture says that 3000 should were added which seems to indicate that the Church already existed.

Acts 2:41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

The Baptist Faith and Message [Section VI] adopted by the Southern Baptist Convention in Atlanta, Georgia on June 14, 2000 states:

“The New Testament also speaks of the church as the Body of Christ which includes all the redeemed of all ages, believers from every tribe, and tongue, and people, and nation.”

I believe that to be true so would not the Church have existed since the redemption of the first of God's elect? Of course the price of redemption in time was not paid until the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ.

 

Good to see you OR. Now, in the case of the church in your neck of the woods, it was founded by Joel Osteen in South Carolina. See Joel 1:1


The word of the LORD that came to Joel Osteen son of Pethuel, under a Palmetto tree.

 

A basketball arena would not hold the crowd so he bought a football stadium! Awesome!

 

I would also argue that it was not until Pentecost that the Gentiles were grafted in. This is a clear and necessary distinction with regards to the current church age. (Ephesians 3:6) As Charles Ryrie puts it:

"Ephesians 3 cannot be dealt with accurately without considering some features in the extended discussion of the body in 1 Corinthians 12. Two important features of the body of Christ are detailed in verse 13. First, Jews and Gentiles are not distinguished in the body of Christ. This is the emphasis of the mystery of Ephesians 3. Second, entrance into that body is effected by the baptism of the Spirit.

That baptizing work did not occur in the Old Testament nor during the earthly ministry of Christ. Even after the resurrection Lord said that it was still future (Acts 1:5). It did take place for the first time in the history of the world on the day of Pentecost (Acts 11:15–16). Therefore the inescapable conclusion is that the body of Christ did not come into existence until the day of Pentecost when the first members of that body were joined to the risen Head."

Ryrie, Charles C. "The Mystery in Ephesians 3: BSAC 123:489 ." Bibliotheca Sacra, (Jan 1966): 8.

 

And in what body were Job, Tamar, Rahab, and Ruth and all the redeemed prior to the flood or prior to the call of Abraham? And by whom were these Saints redeemed?

 

The answer is obvious, but you beg another question:

Where was the body of Christ at that time, and how would they know they were a "church"?

 

Good question but Scripture says the Gospel was preached to Abraham!

 

True, but could he or any other OT saint justified by faith be considered in the body of Christ? They continued, despite their beliefs, to honor the Law, to offer Temple sacrifices, participate in the feast days, etc.

Were they the first Messianic Jews, or were they Jews awaiting the revelation of God's plan, which they trusted even though they didn't know what it was?

 

This is perhaps one of the best threads I have ever seen. Both sides state their positions based on Scripture, and the back and forth is very civil. It seems to come down to the indwelling of the Holy Spirit and its timing. Of course, God is not bound by time. I always believed the church started at Pentecost, but in the last say, two to three years, have had an open mind to saying Christ established the church during His earthly ministry, or a new element, OR presents the idea that the church was established in eternity past.

Anyway just to let everyone know, this has been one of the most thought provoking and Christ like threads I have seen.

 

I believe that God has only one people and those people were saved by the sacrificial death of Jesus Christ and constitute the Church of Jesus Christ. I believe that to be true regardless of what time in history they were saved!

Abraham {and Isaac} and all the saved who preceded them were certainly not Jews or Israelites. i suppose they would be considered Gentiles. The Apostle Paul says of those without the Law:

Romans 2:12-16
12. For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
13. (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
14. For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
15. Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another
16. In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.

And I don't pretend to understand all that Paul is saying in this passage, except perhaps the last verse.

Apparently the first time the name Jew appeared in Scripture was in the writing of Jeremiah {34:9} and I believe referred to the those of the tribe of Judah chosen to bring jesus Christ into the world.

You rightly say they were all justified by faith but those so justified after the giving of the law {the Mosaic Covenant} were still obliged to observe the law until the sacrifice of Jesus Christ. I believe that Jesus Christ by his death did away with the ceremonial law.

Luke 16:16 The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.

 

They were called by God for purpose and I am going to say they fell under the concept of: They died in the faith which was to come.

But before the faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. Gal 3:23, 24

And now that the faith has come: Gal 3:25 But after that the faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

Now they are asleep in Jesus, or if you will, are dead in Christ and at the coming of the Lord will first be resurrected then joined with those alive in Christ at his coming will rise together to meet the Lord in the air and then proceed together into the kingdom of God.

Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption 1 Cor 15:50