When Did the Church Start?

[ituttut]

ituttut,
Is your view something you came to understand from the scriptures, or are there others who hold this view and have written on it?

It's new to me, and I'd like to read more about it.

It began when Christ Jesus spoke to Paul. We see it developing in the Book of Acts, and find specifics in the Epistles of Paul, the Apostle to the Gentile, and to the Jew.

I believe Christ can move us within, or to His Body Church. I began to see it some 40 or so years ago. It took time for I am a very slow learner. He lead me to different one's, with full understanding coming when He put me in touch with the Berean Bible Society.org, now under the leadership of Pastor Paul Sadler. Pastor Ricky Kurth is the "front man" for answering questions, request, etc. This is not a "church", but biblical understanding of the "dispensational" gospel of God revealed to Paul.

I am a product of what I have read and heard, beginning with my Baptist background. I first found in the Baptist church the gospel of Jesus Christ would be my Lord and savior. I was now in His Word, but didn't know my way around. It took years to understand all the books and different preachers I was listening to were not all saying the same thing. We must go back to the "source" for full understanding, and there are those that can guide us. Certainly today most Baptist churches, and others, are preaching to look for the "Kingdom", and not the "Rapture". This is not the Christian message that began in Antioch.


I find there is only one to listen today for we today. When we do listen the whole Bible is opened up to us, proving all scripture is for us, but not all applies to us. The "Kingdom Church" is on that other foundation of Jesus Christ. Christ Jesus from heaven commissioned our Apostle Paul to build on the foundation of Christ Jesus, forming the "Body Church".

Paul our Apostle is the last person Christ Jesus spoke to regarding His (God's) "dispensational" gospel of how we are "justified". None before Damascus Road knew we are justified through the faith of Jesus, by the Grace of God. All others before had to do a work, being justified by faith. We don't have to do a work to be justified. For entrance into the "Body Church" we "believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and we will be saved". This is the "Grace Commission" which will disappear when we are "caught up".

 

[dallas]

The church began during the earthly ministry of Christ

 

[ituttut]

The church began during the earthly ministry of Christ

Who was the first to build on His, Jesus Christ's foundation?

 

[mnw]

Hello All,

Just wanted to apologise for my absence. I could never get back in as so much has been said and there is a lot of good material.

My absence was due to a Mission's Conference in Spain. I was gone for a week and I just have no tbeen able to catch up.

But thanks for the comments and the interest shown.

God bless ya'll.

Martin

 

[Tom Butler]

mnw, welcome back.

Such an innocent little question you asked. Who woulda thought we'd still be going after 20-plus pages and 200-plus posts.?

Got any other innocent little questions you're ready to spring on us?

 

[mnw]

Thanks Tom. I'll see if there is anything I can come up with.

I am going to work my way through reading the discussion this week, but I don't think I'll be able to comment on anything. But we'll see.

Anymore questions... I'll think about it.

 

[Brother Bob]

If everyone had of agreed with ever thing I said, it would not of lasted so long. :laugh:

 

[Tom Butler]

Yeah, Brother Bob, same for me. I thought I had posted what should have been the last word on the subject, with no further discussion needed.

Sure fooled me!

 

[Brother Bob]

lol :laugh: :laugh: :thumbsup:

 

[LeBuick]

Yeah, Brother Bob, same for me. !

I think you're both right, I told you the Church started...

And no one listened! :BangHead: :BangHead:

Now we all late for service... :laugh:

 

[ituttut]

Thanks Tom. I'll see if there is anything I can come up with.

I am going to work my way through reading the discussion this week, but I don't think I'll be able to comment on anything. But we'll see.

Anymore questions... I'll think about it.

Thanks for putting the poll before us in the manner you did. These types of Polls, which I enjoy, allow for debate for they leave room for debate, rather than presented as a true count needed for statistical truth. Are you a Baptist (Yes or No) gives a count that cannot be questioned. That would be no fun and not led to further study in His Word, or putting forth our personal beliefs.

I believe we all had to decide what we believed to be the most important church to us. Brother Bob in answering another is the first to point to that "first church" mentioned in the Bible. Those before his post were pointing to the "Kingdom Church" that would be more relevant to we today. This is the reason I talked of two choices. I of course voted "during Paul's ministry", for of the two foundations to build on the foundation of Jesus Christ, I build on the foundation of the "Body Church".

An engaging poll to say the least.

 

[mnw]

Hi ituttut, its great to see this discussion has benefited others. It has been a help to me.

God bless.

 

[Tom Butler]

This thread has been going on for so long that I've forgotten which side of the debate I took. Now I have to go back to the beginning and refresh my memory.

 

[Brother Bob]

Well, we started at our local church in 1919 but I missed that day.

 

[Poimen]

From the new Guy

Hi there,

I am from a background almost identical in belief with the Pentecostal Free Will Baptists. I currently am independent. But I do not consider myself Baptist, though I am a baptist (lower case denoting belief in immersion).

I am however a born again believe in the Lord Jesus Christ.

You'll have to forgive me, after reading the first several pages I skipped most of this thread. I'm taking the chance that my comments will not be identical to another and worthy of consideration.:saint:

I think, despite our ideas on the nature of the church, that a plain reading and acceptance of the Scripture clearly indicates the church started in the earthly ministry of Christ.

First off, as has been alluded to already, He said He would be His church. He did not say the Holy Spirit would build it.

I believe the OT actually prophesies this fact, as well as typifies the actual establishment.

Psalms 87:5b tells us the Lord himself would establish Zion. The Church is the true Sion/Zion of which Israel was a shadow.

The church is the temple of God, built, and continuing to be built/expanded, of which the OT temple was the shadow. We find reference to the house of God being established in the mountains in Isaiah 2:2 and Micah 4:1,2

We see Jesus calling out and authorizing (the definition and function of ekklesia) the apostles -- setting them forth, an obvious organizational meeting, in a mountain in Mark 3:13-15

Psalms 72:16 seems to allude to this initial choosing of the apostles as well, designating them the handful of corn, who following the resurrection and the outpouring at Pentecost saw the city of God, the heavenly Jerusalem, the church spread like wild fire, like grass of the earth.

In Ephesians we are taught that the church is the bride of Christ. We find in the gospels Christ fulfilling the common customs related to picking an marrying a Jewish bride in his day. Per that analogy we are now in the period of espousal. Christ chose her, made a covenant with her, sealed it with the cup of covenant, and paid the purchased price for her with his won blood. He very well didn't choose, covenant, drink with, and purchase a non existing bride.

We see it having it's first business meeting to replace Judas with Matthias prior to Pentecost as well.

I see it as the church being conceived in Israel, but born on Pentecost. It existed prior to Pentecost, in the womb of Israel.

 

[Allan]

Hello there Poimen and glad to have you with.

I'm not sure you realize the magnitude of resurrecting this thread :laugh: I hope your ready to back your particular view brother :laugh: but sit back, cause your fixing to take a rather wild ride. But it will be a fun one I must admit.

I will digress and allow the fun to emerge. :type:

Hey it is the debate forum though right?

 

[Poimen]

Thanks for the welcome!

I'm not afraid of wild rides. ha ha! However, there is not mcuh more I can say on the subject except to elborate on my points.

I'm not sure what I may have ressurected here -- sorry. I truly hope it doesn't cause anything ugly.

 

[Tom Butler]

Welcome, Poimen,

I'd suggest that you go back and take the time to read the entire thread. You will read articulate and well-reasoned arguments for a number of views.

I will alert you that mine are the best.

This way you will be able to test your viewpoint against the best students of the Bible that this board has.

And some of the views expressed will make your eyes glaze over. Be that as it may, this is actually a pretty good thread to get your baptism into the fires of debate and discussion.

 

[Brother Bob]

I will alert you that mine are the best.

 

[Tom Butler]

Oh, Brother Bob, you crack me up! Just like I cracked up that dog.

I take it, then, that you disagree about my posts being the best. I'm shocked, just shocked, I tell you.