When Did YOU Receive the Holy Spirit?

[annsni]

Greetings again annsi, That is like asking me if my arm was me. I could say yes in some circumstances, or in other, it is a part of me. When we read of a miracle, then it was God who performed that miracle through the Holy Spirit given say unto Peter. Can we separate the Holy Spirit from God, or call the Holy Spirit a separate person? No it is a part of the One God, the Father.

Kind regards
Trevor

The Holy Spirit is not God the Father. The Holy Spirit is not Jesus. Jesus is not God the Father. Yet they are all one God.

The Spirit is never spoken of as an "it" in Scripture - He is always spoken of as He. That means that He is a person.

Your analogy falls short saying that your arm was you because if your arm was cut off, your arm would not be you. You would be you and your arm would cease to be you. However, the Spirit is still God when He stands alone.

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings again annsni, Yeshua1 and The Biblicist,

I appreciate your responses. It was not my intention to get involved in a thorough discussion on the Trinity, or the subject of the Holy Spirit as part of the Trinity, but I will attempt to briefly answer what you have raised. I am more interested in the latter part of this post regarding Hebrew 4:12.

The Holy Spirit is not God the Father. The Holy Spirit is not Jesus. Jesus is not God the Father. Yet they are all one God.

The Spirit is never spoken of as an "it" in Scripture - He is always spoken of as He. That means that He is a person.

Your analogy falls short saying that your arm was you because if your arm was cut off, your arm would not be you. You would be you and your arm would cease to be you. However, the Spirit is still God when He stands alone.

I understand what I was trying to convey by my analogy, and I do not intend to chop my arm off. I do not believe The Spirit is isolated or stands alone from God the Father. The Spirit is God the Father’s Spirit, as shown in many quotes in my post #46, as it emanates from Him. The Spirit is part of the One God, not three. Concerning the word “it” being used to describe The Spirit, I refer you again to the last two quotations in my post #46, which you responded to in post #48. I checked the Greek in one similar reference and found that the word used in relationship to the Spirit can be translated “it” or “he”. A Trinitarian would usually be biased to always translate this word as “He”, but with the two quotes mentioned this was overlooked in some translations.

Jesus said that there is One called His father who is God, THAt same person commanded the Angels to worship the Son, jesus, and jesus said anotjher SAME as Him wpuld be sent to be with them, the Holy Spirit///

THREE person, each one God, yet still just ONE God!

I appreciate how you add 1+1+1=3 but somehow =1, though I have never been able to properly understand this concept. My understanding is that there is One God, the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

The following two quotes were in response to my citation of Psalm 110:1:

The Scriptures reveal that Jesus is seated at the right hand of God. I could also quote a number of NT verses that are based upon the following, but if you have a margin or TSK or NTSK you will be able to follow through how this verse is applied in the NT.
Psalm 110:1 (KJV): The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.

So was/is Jesus God, same as the Yeshua/Yahweh of the OT who dealt with Isreal?

However, that is not the issue! The issue is how is David applying it right then when he said it. David was addressing someone as His "Lord" and yet he had no "Lord" on earth over him because he was the king. This is the very point Jesus emphasized when facing those who understood God as you do.

I am surprised at how both of you read Psalm 110:1. I believe that David was prophesying of the day when Yahweh, the Lord of Heaven and Earth, God the Father (Psalm 8, Matthew 11) would invite David’s future Lord, the Christ, the Priest after the order of Melchizedek, to sit at the right hand of God the Father in heaven. This is how Peter in Acts 2 applies this prophecy and how this prophecy is applied throughout the NT. Did you follow through and check where and how Psalm 110:1 is applied in the NT as requested? By the way, I recommend NTSK, it is a Baptist publication, and I have an electronic copy with Libronix, but I liked it so much I had to contact a distant Baptist bookshop to purchase a print copy.

Getting back to the subject of this thread, and my claim that I have not received the Holy Spirit, in the same manner as others have claimed. I would like to attempt to briefly explain my understanding of the following, and ask for your own explanation in response:
Hebrews 4:12 (KJV): For the word of God is living, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
I believe that those who have come into contact with the Word of God, especially in the form of the gospel, when they affectionately believe and receive this Word, have the Spirit of God within them. Jesus said that the words that he spoke are spirit and are life. In the above quotation this is termed simply “spirit”. When we receive his words, we receive the spirit and the spirit of Christ. Also we have within us our natural thoughts and in the above quotation this is termed simply “soul”. When we further encounter the word of God, we find that the Word is living and powerful, and able to pierce even to the dividing asunder of “soul and spirit”, that is the thoughts that have come from God through his word and are now resident in our thoughts, and the thoughts that come of our own prompting, from the natural man. This is further qualified by the phrase that the Word of God “is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.” By affectionately receiving this new portion of the Word of God, we can have encouragement, guidance and an overcoming of our natural thoughts. Without the continual renewing by this Word of God, the natural thoughts become dominant and we fall away from the faith.

Could you please comment on the above and explain where you fit the Holy Spirit into Hebrews 4:12.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[The Biblicist]

I am surprised at how both of you read Psalm 110:1. I believe that David was prophesying of the day when Yahweh, the Lord of Heaven and Earth, God the Father (Psalm 8, Matthew 11) would invite David’s future Lord, the Christ, the Priest after the order of Melchizedek, to sit at the right hand of God the Father in heaven.

Certainly David spoke prophetically of Christ as "my Lord" since Christ had not yet been incarnated. However, Christ was preached by all the prophets including David (Acts 10:43) and he BELIEVED IN the Christ He prophesied about and regarded him as "my Lord."

You refer to Peter's account but Peter also said concerning Christ as "Lord" in Psalm 16:

Acts 2:25 For David speaketh concerning him, I foresaw the Lord always before my face, for he is on my right hand, that I should not be moved:

demonstrating that David knew Christ by faith and had a spiritual relationship with Him even as we do today and claimed him as "Lord" and in Psalm 16 that is the term "Yahweh" the reserved name for the one true God.

Isaiah also called him "Yahweh" and John quoted Isaiah claiming this applied to the Jesus Christ (Mk. 1:1-3). All the prophets knew Christ as "Yahweh" their redeemer and Savior.

As I pointed out in an earlier post (which you never replied to) Jesus called The Holy Spirit "allos" or "another of like kind" of "parakletos" which demands the Holy Spirit is not a mere force or power but an intelligent personage who can comfort, teach, lead, rebuke, guide and do everything that Christ could do as a "parakletos."

 

[annsni]

Greetings again annsni, Yeshua1 and The Biblicist,

I appreciate your responses. It was not my intention to get involved in a thorough discussion on the Trinity, or the subject of the Holy Spirit as part of the Trinity, but I will attempt to briefly answer what you have raised. I am more interested in the latter part of this post regarding Hebrew 4:12.
I understand what I was trying to convey by my analogy, and I do not intend to chop my arm off. I do not believe The Spirit is isolated or stands alone from God the Father. The Spirit is God the Father’s Spirit, as shown in many quotes in my post #46, as it emanates from Him. The Spirit is part of the One God, not three. Concerning the word “it” being used to describe The Spirit, I refer you again to the last two quotations in my post #46, which you responded to in post #48. I checked the Greek in one similar reference and found that the word used in relationship to the Spirit can be translated “it” or “he”. A Trinitarian would usually be biased to always translate this word as “He”, but with the two quotes mentioned this was overlooked in some translations.

This is not at all Biblical or orthodox teaching. The Spirit is a separate person of the Trinity and stands alone - not as only a part of God the Father.

 

[Yeshua1]

IF one denies that yeshua is God, or that the Holy Spirit is also God.

One denies the very nature of God, and would have a diiferent jesus and Gospel!

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings again The Biblicist,

Certainly David spoke prophetically of Christ as "my Lord" since Christ had not yet been incarnated. However, Christ was preached by all the prophets including David (Acts 10:43) and he BELIEVED IN the Christ He prophesied about and regarded him as "my Lord."

I agree with you on the application of Psalm110:1 in Acts 2:34-35. David in Psalm 110:1 was speaking prophetically of Christ as “my lord”. David was looking forward to the time when Jesus was to be born, suffer and then be exalted to the right hand of God. Yes all the prophets looked forward to the coming of the Messiah or Christ and prophesied of his suffering and Glory.
1 Peter 1:10-11 (KJV): 10 Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you: 11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.

You refer to Peter's account but Peter also said concerning Christ as "Lord" in Psalm 16:
Acts 2:25 For David speaketh concerning him, I foresaw the Lord always before my face, for he is on my right hand, that I should not be moved:
demonstrating that David knew Christ by faith and had a spiritual relationship with Him even as we do today and claimed him as "Lord" and in Psalm 16 that is the term "Yahweh" the reserved name for the one true God.

My understanding of Psalm 16 is that it represents firstly David’s thoughts in his trials, and also represents Christ’s thoughts in his own sufferings. David indeed set Yahweh before him in his trials, but this is primarily speaking of David’s trust in God, not a personal relationship with Christ. When Peter quotes Psalm 16, he is speaking of Christ setting Yahweh, that is God the Father, before his face. Jesus was not to be moved, and God would not leave his soul in hell, or the grave, but God raised Jesus on the third day.

Isaiah also called him "Yahweh" and John quoted Isaiah claiming this applied to the Jesus Christ (Mk. 1:1-3). All the prophets knew Christ as "Yahweh" their redeemer and Savior.

I believe that Jesus as the Son of God represents Yahweh, and thus bears His Name. Yahweh is part of Jesus’ name, Yahweh’s salvation, because it is in and through Jesus that God the Father saves.

As I pointed out in an earlier post (which you never replied to) Jesus called The Holy Spirit "allos" or "another of like kind" of "parakletos" which demands the Holy Spirit is not a mere force or power but an intelligent personage who can comfort, teach, lead, rebuke, guide and do everything that Christ could do as a "parakletos."

Yes, but the Spirit is an extension or a work of God the Father. It is God the Father doing all of these things through His Spirit.

Concerning the other subject I raised, about the concept of the Spirit within, I believe the following shows the Spirit within is by means of faith. When we believe the Word of God, this develops the spirit within.
Ephesians 3:14-21 (KJV): 14 For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, 15 Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named, 16 That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man; 17 That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love, 18 May be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height; 19 And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God. 20 Now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us, 21 Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen.

This process is also explained later in Paul’s letter:
Ephesians 4:21-28 (KJV): 21 If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus: 22 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts; 23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind; 24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness. 25 Wherefore putting away lying, speak every man truth with his neighbour: for we are members one of another. 26 Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath: 27 Neither give place to the devil. 28 Let him that stole steal no more: but rather let him labour, working with his hands the thing which is good, that he may have to give to him that needeth.

Concerning Psalm 110:1, I believe that it is based in part upon the following verses:
2 Samuel 7:18-19 (KJV): 18 Then went king David in, and sat before the LORD, and he said, Who am I, O Lord GOD? and what is my house, that thou hast brought me hitherto? 19 And this was yet a small thing in thy sight, O Lord GOD; but thou hast spoken also of thy servant’s house for a great while to come. And is this the manner of man, O Lord GOD?
Unlike some Psalms that have dual fulfilment, this Psalm is uniquely speaking of Christ in his exaltation after his suffering.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings again annsni and Yeshua1,

This is not at all Biblical or orthodox teaching. The Spirit is a separate person of the Trinity and stands alone - not as only a part of God the Father.

IF one denies that yeshua is God, or that the Holy Spirit is also God.
One denies the very nature of God, and would have a diiferent jesus and Gospel!

I appreciate your concern for my spiritual welfare. I am interested in the speeches given by Peter and Paul in The Acts. Peter preached the gospel to the Jews in Acts 2 and 3, and Paul preached the gospel to the Gentiles in Acts 13. I do not find any evidence that they preached the Trinity in these records, and if this was an essential and important part of the gospel, then why is it not taught here? Rather I find in these records a confirmation of my own belief, that there is One God the Father, and that Jesus is the Son of God.

Acts 2:22-24 (KJV): 22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know: 23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain: 24 Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.
Acts 2:32-36 (KJV): 32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses. 33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear. 34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, 35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool. 36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
Acts 13:30-38 (KJV): 30 But God raised him from the dead: 31 And he was seen many days of them which came up with him from Galilee to Jerusalem, who are his witnesses unto the people. 32 And we declare unto you glad tidings, how that the promise which was made unto the fathers, 33 God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee. 34 And as concerning that he raised him up from the dead, now no more to return to corruption, he said on this wise, I will give you the sure mercies of David. 35 Wherefore he saith also in another psalm, Thou shalt not suffer thine Holy One to see corruption. 36 For David, after he had served his own generation by the will of God, fell on sleep, and was laid unto his fathers, and saw corruption: 37 But he, whom God raised again, saw no corruption. 38 Be it known unto you therefore, men and brethren, that through this man is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins:

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[Yeshua1]

Greetings again annsni and Yeshua1,


I appreciate your concern for my spiritual welfare. I am interested in the speeches given by Peter and Paul in The Acts. Peter preached the gospel to the Jews in Acts 2 and 3, and Paul preached the gospel to the Gentiles in Acts 13. I do not find any evidence that they preached the Trinity in these records, and if this was an essential and important part of the gospel, then why is it not taught here? Rather I find in these records a confirmation of my own belief, that there is One God the Father, and that Jesus is the Son of God.

Acts 2:22-24 (KJV): 22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know: 23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain: 24 Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.
Acts 2:32-36 (KJV): 32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses. 33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear. 34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, 35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool. 36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
Acts 13:30-38 (KJV): 30 But God raised him from the dead: 31 And he was seen many days of them which came up with him from Galilee to Jerusalem, who are his witnesses unto the people. 32 And we declare unto you glad tidings, how that the promise which was made unto the fathers, 33 God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee. 34 And as concerning that he raised him up from the dead, now no more to return to corruption, he said on this wise, I will give you the sure mercies of David. 35 Wherefore he saith also in another psalm, Thou shalt not suffer thine Holy One to see corruption. 36 For David, after he had served his own generation by the will of God, fell on sleep, and was laid unto his fathers, and saw corruption: 37 But he, whom God raised again, saw no corruption. 38 Be it known unto you therefore, men and brethren, that through this man is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins:

Kind regards
Trevor

Apostle John disagrees with you here!

As under the inspiration of the Holy spirit, he wrote that IF one refuses to call jesus the Lord/messiah/God...
IF one fails to honor the Son rightly, he does NOT have the Father, as BOTh are fully God!

As is the Holy Spirit, per the scriptures!

That the Apostles ALL bore witness to the trinity, as did the early Church, being strictly jewish mindset many of them...

HAD to be a direct Revelation from God Himself!

 

[percho]

Apostle John disagrees with you here!

As under the inspiration of the Holy spirit, he wrote that IF one refuses to call jesus the Lord/messiah/God...
IF one fails to honor the Son rightly, he does NOT have the Father, as BOTh are fully God!

As is the Holy Spirit, per the scriptures!

That the Apostles ALL bore witness to the trinity, as did the early Church, being strictly jewish mindset many of them...

HAD to be a direct Revelation from God Himself!

Chapter and verse?

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings again Yeshua1,

Apostle John disagrees with you here!
As under the inspiration of the Holy spirit, he wrote that IF one refuses to call jesus the Lord/messiah/God...
IF one fails to honor the Son rightly, he does NOT have the Father, as BOTh are fully God!
As is the Holy Spirit, per the scriptures!
That the Apostles ALL bore witness to the trinity, as did the early Church, being strictly jewish mindset many of them...
HAD to be a direct Revelation from God Himself!

Chapter and verse?

I would tend to agree with percho here. I can see a few bits and pieces of quotations, but do not know where you get the other ideas from. Please be simpler and clearer in your responses.

In my previous post I mentioned that Peter and Paul preached the gospel in Acts 2, 3, 13. In all of these there is no evidence in these speeches of the apostles that they taught the Trinity. Rather I find in these records a confirmation of my own belief, that there is One God the Father, and that Jesus is the Son of God. I quoted some passages from Acts 2 and 13, but the following is a similar sample from Acts 3.
Acts 3:13-15 (KJV): 13 The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Son Jesus; whom ye delivered up, and denied him in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let him go. 14 But ye denied the Holy One and the Just, and desired a murderer to be granted unto you; 15 And killed the Prince of life, whom God hath raised from the dead; whereof we are witnesses.
Acts 3:18-21 (KJV): 18 But those things, which God before had shewed by the mouth of all his prophets, that Christ should suffer, he hath so fulfilled. 19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; 20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: 21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.
Acts 3:26 (KJV): Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.

It is also interesting to note that some modern translations have Servant instead of Son, clearly showing that Jesus is God’s Servant, and this reminds us of Isaiah 40-53 where the future Messiah was shown to be God’s Servant.
Acts 3:13 (NASB95): “The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, the God of our fathers, has glorified His servant Jesus, the one whom you delivered and disowned in the presence of Pilate, when he had decided to release Him.
Acts 3:26 (NASB95): “For you first, God raised up His Servant and sent Him to bless you by turning every one of you from your wicked ways.”

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[The Biblicist]

Greetings again The Biblicist,

I agree with you on the application of Psalm110:1 in Acts 2:34-35. David in Psalm 110:1 was speaking prophetically of Christ as “my lord”. David was looking forward to the time when Jesus was to be born, suffer and then be exalted to the right hand of God. Yes all the prophets looked forward to the coming of the Messiah or Christ and prophesied of his suffering and Glory.
1 Peter 1:10-11 (KJV): 10 Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you: 11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.

My understanding of Psalm 16 is that it represents firstly David’s thoughts in his trials, and also represents Christ’s thoughts in his own sufferings. David indeed set Yahweh before him in his trials, but this is primarily speaking of David’s trust in God, not a personal relationship with Christ. When Peter quotes Psalm 16, he is speaking of Christ setting Yahweh, that is God the Father, before his face. Jesus was not to be moved, and God would not leave his soul in hell, or the grave, but God raised Jesus on the third day.
I believe that Jesus as the Son of God represents Yahweh, and thus bears His Name. Yahweh is part of Jesus’ name, Yahweh’s salvation, because it is in and through Jesus that God the Father saves.
Yes, but the Spirit is an extension or a work of God the Father. It is God the Father doing all of these things through His Spirit.

Concerning the other subject I raised, about the concept of the Spirit within, I believe the following shows the Spirit within is by means of faith. When we believe the Word of God, this develops the spirit within.
Ephesians 3:14-21 (KJV): 14 For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, 15 Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named, 16 That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man; 17 That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love, 18 May be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height; 19 And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God. 20 Now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us, 21 Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen.

This process is also explained later in Paul’s letter:
Ephesians 4:21-28 (KJV): 21 If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus: 22 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts; 23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind; 24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness. 25 Wherefore putting away lying, speak every man truth with his neighbour: for we are members one of another. 26 Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath: 27 Neither give place to the devil. 28 Let him that stole steal no more: but rather let him labour, working with his hands the thing which is good, that he may have to give to him that needeth.

Concerning Psalm 110:1, I believe that it is based in part upon the following verses:
2 Samuel 7:18-19 (KJV): 18 Then went king David in, and sat before the LORD, and he said, Who am I, O Lord GOD? and what is my house, that thou hast brought me hitherto? 19 And this was yet a small thing in thy sight, O Lord GOD; but thou hast spoken also of thy servant’s house for a great while to come. And is this the manner of man, O Lord GOD?
Unlike some Psalms that have dual fulfilment, this Psalm is uniquely speaking of Christ in his exaltation after his suffering.

Kind regards
Trevor

Of course you believe whatever it takes to justify your heresies.

 

[Yeshua1]

Greetings again Yeshua1,



I would tend to agree with percho here. I can see a few bits and pieces of quotations, but do not know where you get the other ideas from. Please be simpler and clearer in your responses.

In my previous post I mentioned that Peter and Paul preached the gospel in Acts 2, 3, 13. In all of these there is no evidence in these speeches of the apostles that they taught the Trinity. Rather I find in these records a confirmation of my own belief, that there is One God the Father, and that Jesus is the Son of God. I quoted some passages from Acts 2 and 13, but the following is a similar sample from Acts 3.
Acts 3:13-15 (KJV): 13 The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Son Jesus; whom ye delivered up, and denied him in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let him go. 14 But ye denied the Holy One and the Just, and desired a murderer to be granted unto you; 15 And killed the Prince of life, whom God hath raised from the dead; whereof we are witnesses.
Acts 3:18-21 (KJV): 18 But those things, which God before had shewed by the mouth of all his prophets, that Christ should suffer, he hath so fulfilled. 19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; 20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: 21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.
Acts 3:26 (KJV): Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.

It is also interesting to note that some modern translations have Servant instead of Son, clearly showing that Jesus is God’s Servant, and this reminds us of Isaiah 40-53 where the future Messiah was shown to be God’s Servant.
Acts 3:13 (NASB95): “The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, the God of our fathers, has glorified His servant Jesus, the one whom you delivered and disowned in the presence of Pilate, when he had decided to release Him.
Acts 3:26 (NASB95): “For you first, God raised up His Servant and sent Him to bless you by turning every one of you from your wicked ways.”

Kind regards
Trevor

High priest asked jesus if he was Messiah, son of God "I AM"

jews knew that referenced jesus holding Himself to be equal with God, thus to them deserving death!

So again, from the bible...

jesus called the father "God", Jesus and the father both called him "god"
peter called the Holy Spirit "God"

3 persons, yet 1 God!

 

[McWilliams]

..........when I believed I received the Holy Ghost! Soli deo gloria!!

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings again The Biblicist and Yeshua1,

Of course you believe whatever it takes to justify your heresies.

I am happy to believe what you call heresies.

High priest asked jesus if he was Messiah, son of God "I AM"
jews knew that referenced jesus holding Himself to be equal with God, thus to them deserving death!
So again, from the bible...
jesus called the father "God", Jesus and the father both called him "god"
peter called the Holy Spirit "God"
3 persons, yet 1 God!

I would really like you to open the Bible and check all of the above please.

Attention is drawn to the various creeds, the first is considered to be of second century origin and is called the Apostle’s Creed. This creed is in scriptural terms and is simple and understandable and although I do not see the need for creeds, I could endorse the following.

The Apostle’s Creed: “I believe in God the Father Almighty, maker of heaven and earth; and in Jesus Christ His only Son our Lord, who was conceived by the Holy Spirit, born of the virgin Mary”.

The Nicene Creed teaches the Deity of Christ, but in AD381 a clause was added to claim that the Holy Spirit was also a person. The Athanasian Creed was formulated in the fifth century, and represents the fully developed doctrine of the Trinity. Two sentences in this creed is sufficient to show that this creed is not scriptural: “The Father incomprehensible, The Son incomprehensible, and the Holy Ghost incomprehensible. He therefore that will be saved must think of the Trinity.”

The Apostle Paul predicted this development away from the simplicity, beauty and truth of the gospel.
2 Timothy 4:3-4 (KJV): 3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; 4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
2 Thessalonians 2:10-12 (KJV): 10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[The Biblicist]

Greetings again The Biblicist and Yeshua1,

I am happy to believe what you call heresies.

Tit. 2:13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;

The Greek construction identified grammatically as the Grandville Sharpe Rule is found twice in this verse. In simple terms the Grandville sharpe rule says where there are two substantives (nouns) found in the same case with the first one accompanying a definite article (the) and second noun without the definite article separated by a conjunction then the second noun is merely restating or redescribing the first noun. Hence, Titus 2:13 would literally read this way according to that grammatical rule:


"Looking for that blessed hope WHICH IS the glorious appearing of the Great God WHO IS our Savior Jesus Christ."

The great unitarian Greek Grammarian Winer attempted to overthrow the Grandville Sharpe Rule and its application to Titus 2:13 but his logic and arguments were completely refuted by Dr. A.T. Roberston


In Regard to the Holy Spirit, as I have mentioned previously, and I have not yet read any serious rebuttal by you, that Jesus identified Him as "allos" or another of LIKE KIND of "parkletos" which would continue that kind of work Jesus began. The term "parkletos" cannot possibly be defined, restricted or intepreted HONESTLY to be a mere force or power but must by its very meaning and contextual application have reference to a Personage equal to every area that the Son of God acted as a "parkletos."

Furthermore, for you to reply "I believe" followed by no substantial grammatical, contextual, rational evidence as you have done in the past is a clear admission of inability to deal with the Biblical data and thus a clear admission of error.

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings again The Biblicist,

I appreciate your latest post dealing with two passages and attempting to prove your view of the Trinity on the exposition of Greek words. I am no expert in Greek, but I will look at these. I would be interested in your comments on the following.

In our Bible Class next Wednesday we will commence a series on Romans 8 led by one of our younger Brethren. In preparation I have attempted to have a closer look at the beginning of this chapter. I noticed that the word “spirit” or “Spirit” occurs many times in this chapter.
Romans 8:1-2 (KJV): 1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
In the above, “the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus” is set against “the law of sin and death”. This follows on from Paul’s consideration in Romans 7 where despite a desire to fulfil the commandments, there was a failure because of “the law of sin in his members” Romans 7:18-23. In Romans 7:24 he cries for deliverance, and he is reassured that there is deliverance in Christ. Romans 8:1 speaks of this deliverance, because now there is no condemnation to those in Christ Jesus. In other words those who have believed the gospel and have been baptised into Christ have been forgiven their sins. These believers have been introduced to a new environment, “the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus”. This new environment lifts the believer above the continual conflict experienced in Romans 7, governed by “the law of sin in his members”, expressed here in Romans 8:2 as “the law of sin and death”. There will be some conflict, but the scales have been tipped from a dominance to sin and its environment, to a dominance of the gospel environment and a way of life in Christ that produces the fruit of the Spirit.

Romans 8:3-4 (KJV): 3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: 4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
At the heart of this new way of life is the belief in the effectual conquering of sin accomplished by God in His Son, who came in our sin-stricken nature and overcame sin in the very flesh where sin normally reigned. The benefit of Christ’s conquest of sin flows onto those that are united with Christ in belief and in His way of life, walking after the spirit, and not after the flesh.

In both of these occurrences of “spirit” it does not speak of the believer having the Holy Spirit, but in the first it is an environment where the gospel has been affectionately believed and has become the new source of life. The second speaks of the source of the believer’s walk, now no longer motivated by the flesh, but having its source in God.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[TrevorL]

I would like to sound a warning to those who claim to have the Holy Spirit. Perhaps there are different levels of this, some would see the need to constantly read and meditate on the Word of God, while others believing that they have the Holy Spirit to guide their thoughts will neglect the Word.

The Apostle Paul on the following two occasions gave a warning or admonition to first century believers, and these definitely had the Holy Spirit, but in my opinion not as claimed today. They had the Holy Spirit gifts. But to both of these, to Timothy, and to the Ephesians elders, Paul encouraged them to take heed to the Word of God.
2 Timothy 3:15-17 (KJV): 15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. 16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
Acts 20:32 (KJV): And now, brethren, I commend you to God, and to the word of his grace, which is able to build you up, and to give you an inheritance among all them which are sanctified.

Both of these admonitions were set in the context that there would arise those that would oppose the simple and clear teaching of the gospel and they would oppose those that lived in accordance with these beliefs.
2 Timothy 3:10-14 (KJV): 10 But thou hast fully known my doctrine, manner of life, purpose, faith, longsuffering, charity, patience, 11 Persecutions, afflictions, which came unto me at Antioch, at Iconium, at Lystra; what persecutions I endured: but out of them all the Lord delivered me. 12 Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution. 13 But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived. 14 But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them;
2 Timothy 4:3-4 (KJV): 3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; 4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
Acts 20:28-31 (KJV): 28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Spirit hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood. 29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock. 30 Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them. 31 Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[The Biblicist]

Greetings again The Biblicist,

I appreciate your latest post dealing with two passages and attempting to prove your view of the Trinity on the exposition of Greek words. I am no expert in Greek, but I will look at these. I would be interested in your comments on the following.

In our Bible Class next Wednesday we will commence a series on Romans 8 led by one of our younger Brethren. In preparation I have attempted to have a closer look at the beginning of this chapter. I noticed that the word “spirit” or “Spirit” occurs many times in this chapter.
Romans 8:1-2 (KJV): 1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
In the above, “the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus” is set against “the law of sin and death”. This follows on from Paul’s consideration in Romans 7 where despite a desire to fulfil the commandments, there was a failure because of “the law of sin in his members” Romans 7:18-23. In Romans 7:24 he cries for deliverance, and he is reassured that there is deliverance in Christ.

Paul is speaking of himself in the present tense as a saved man in Romans 7:14-25 but as a believer attempting to deal with the power of indwelling sin according to the power of his own will (v. 18b). He is expressing the lesson Jesus stated in John 15:5 "without me ye can do nothing" and Jesus was also addressing believers. Paul addresses believers with the same problem in Galatians 5:16-17. Paul is stating it in positive terms to the believers at Philippi in the words of Philip. 2:13 - "For it is God that worketh in you both TO WILL and TO DO of His good pleasure" as the believers own will power cannot overcome the power of indwelling sin.

In Romans 6 Paul has taught that the power to live the Christian life is derived from the Holy Spirit who raised the dead body of Christ from the grave. This is the "Spirit of Life" in regard to Jesus Christ and his resurrection from the dead.

Those who are "in the flesh" cannot please God (8:8) because the "carnal mind" or the mind controlled by indwelling sin is at war with God and is not subject to the law of God and neither indeed can be (8:7).

If you are ONE OF HIS (8:9c) then you have the indwelling Spirit of God dwelling in you and it is the Indwelling Spirit of God that is the solution to victory over indwelling sin (8:9-13).

However, POWER is but one attribute of the Indwelling Spirit of God as the "allos" another of like kind parkletos (comforter) in Romans 8. Look at Romans 8:14, 16, 26-27 which demonstrates the Indwelling Spirit of God is an intelligent Being who can do multitasking.

 

[TrevorL]

I claimed in my last post that the early believers had the Holy Spirit, not as an inward voice or guidance but as the Holy Spirit gifts. Also from the previous post, enlightenment is not directly by the Spirit, but by the Word.

In the previous post two passages 2 Timothy 3:15-17 and Acts 20:32 were quoted which show that the Scriptures, the Word of God is able to make the believer wise unto salvation, and is able to build up and give the believer an inheritance amongst those that are sanctified. To this could be added the theme of the book of Romans, where the gospel believed is the power of God unto salvation.
Romans 1:16-17 (KJV): 16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. 17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

Looking at three examples of the preaching of the gospel, on the day of Pentecost, to the Samaritans and to Cornelius:
Acts 2:37-38 (KJV): 37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? 38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
There is no evidence here that before they were convicted in their hearts at the preaching of the gospel by Peter, that they had received the Holy Spirit or the Spirit in their hearts. The Holy Spirit was to be received after or when they repented and were baptized.

This gift of the Holy Spirit is illustrated by the events surrounding Philip preaching to the Samaritans:
Acts 8:5,12-18 (KJV): 5 Then Philip went down to the city of Samaria, and preached Christ unto them.
12 But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women. 13 Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done. 14 Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John: 15 Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Spirit: 16 (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.) 17 Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit. 18 And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles’ hands the Holy Spirit was given, he offered them money,
This is similar to Acts 2. The Samaritans received the Holy Spirit, but they did not receive the Holy Spirit until some time after their belief of the gospel and baptism. They waited until the Apostles arrived, and the Holy Spirit was administered by the laying on the hands of the Apostles, not by Philip.

When Peter preached the gospel to Cornelius they received the gifts of the Holy Spirit:
Acts 10:43-48 (KJV): 43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins. 44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Spirit fell on all them which heard the word. 45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Spirit. 46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter, 47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Spirit as well as we? 48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

These three examples clearly show that the early believers received the Holy Spirit gifts. These examples also show that the preaching of the gospel is effectual and able. The gospel is powerful; it is the power of God unto salvation to everyone who believes it.

In all of the above I am not coming out on the side of the modern Pentecostal movement, or elements of it that have surfaced in some of the Protestant Churches. The Holy Spirit will only endorse those who hold the true faith, as per those on the Day of Pentecost, the Samaritan believers and Cornelius and those with him. One of my work-mates many years ago experienced and was greatly disturbed by so-called speaking in tongues and other demonstrations in his Baptist Church, and he moved to another Baptist Church. His words to me at the time were “This is not the Holy Spirit”.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings again The Biblicist,

If you are ONE OF HIS (8:9c) then you have the indwelling Spirit of God dwelling in you and it is the Indwelling Spirit of God that is the solution to victory over indwelling sin (8:9-13).

We have similar beliefs, but the major difference here is that I believe the indwelling Spirit of God is only obtained by receiving affectionately the Word of God and meditating upon this, and outworking this teaching in a way of life directed from this.

Kind regards
Trevor