When does a Christian stop sinning?

[SGO]

Some Christians will stay in the bondage of sin and full of iniquity and Christ is clear on what will happen...

Matthew 7:22-23 King James Version (KJV)
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Luke 13:26-28 King James Version (KJV)
26 Then shall ye begin to say, We have eaten and drunk in thy presence, and thou hast taught in our streets.
27 But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity.
28 There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out.

Hey Hobie,
I just read that first verse reference you gave and now I can say that you have pointed out to me the first real contradiction in the bible!

All that the father giveth me shall come to me;
and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
John 6:37

Or, the people God is talking about in the Matthew passage never really had been given to Him.
You want to stick with your interpretation and maybe some time in the future when you lose heart or have a really bad day lose your salvation?
Wow man! You are really strong!
I am weak.

 

[Hobie]

Hey Hobie,
I just read that first verse reference you gave and now I can say that you have pointed out to me the first real contradiction in the bible!

All that the father giveth me shall come to me;
and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
John 6:37

Or, the people God is talking about in the Matthew passage never really had been given to Him.
You want to stick with your interpretation and maybe some time in the future when you lose heart or have a really bad day lose your salvation?
Wow man! You are really strong!
I am weak.

Sadly there are some Christians who say they are part of the saved and yet it is just a form of godliness, and no true faith..They have their reward already...

2 Timothy 3:5-7 [Full Chapter]
Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away. For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts, Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

Matthew 6:2
Therefore when thou doest thine alms, do not sound a trumpet before thee, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.

Matthew 6:5
And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.

Matthew 6:16
Moreover when ye fast, be not, as the hypocrites, of a sad countenance: for they disfigure their faces, that they may appear unto men to fast. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.

 

[atpollard]

So how is this 'Gordian Knot' to be resolved?

With the damnation of all, or trust in Christ.

John 3:18

 

[Hobie]

With the damnation of all, or trust in Christ.

John 3:18

And thats the issue, many claim they believe, but only give lip service and secretly continue in sin. And we see what happens there..

Luke 8:17 King James Version (KJV)
17 For nothing is secret, that shall not be made manifest; neither any thing hid, that shall not be known and come abroad.

 

[SGO]

Sadly there are some Christians who say they are part of the saved and yet it is just a form of godliness, and no true faith..They have their reward already...

2 Timothy 3:5-7 [Full Chapter]
Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away. For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts, Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

Matthew 6:2
Therefore when thou doest thine alms, do not sound a trumpet before thee, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.

Matthew 6:5
And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.

Matthew 6:16
Moreover when ye fast, be not, as the hypocrites, of a sad countenance: for they disfigure their faces, that they may appear unto men to fast. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.

Well Hobie, you give some good scriptures here but I might say that these that had the form never had the substance.
And please pardon me for being so sarcastic earlier. I know you are trying to do a good work. We all need to watch it!

 

[atpollard]

And thats the issue, many claim they believe, but only give lip service and secretly continue in sin. And we see what happens there..

You have conflated two distinct issues.

1. “many claim they believe, but only give lip service”
   
   • Yes, you are correct.
   • And He answered and said to them, "Why do you yourselves transgress the commandment of God for the sake of your tradition? "For God said, 'HONOR YOUR FATHER AND MOTHER,' and, 'HE WHO SPEAKS EVIL OF FATHER OR MOTHER IS TO BE PUT TO DEATH.' "But you say, 'Whoever says to [his] father or mother, "Whatever I have that would help you has been given to God," he is not to honor his father or his mother.' And by this you invalidated the word of God for the sake of your tradition. "You hypocrites, rightly did Isaiah prophesy of you: 'THIS PEOPLE HONORS ME WITH THEIR LIPS, BUT THEIR HEART IS FAR AWAY FROM ME. 'BUT IN VAIN DO THEY WORSHIP ME, TEACHING AS DOCTRINES THE PRECEPTS OF MEN.'" - [Matthew 15:3-9 NASB]
     
   • “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.’ - [Matthew 7:21-23]
2. “and secretly continue in sin.”
   • ALL of the Saints continue in sin.
   • This is the message we have heard from Him and announce to you, that God is Light, and in Him there is no darkness at all. If we say that we have fellowship with Him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth; but if we walk in the Light as He Himself is in the Light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin. If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar and His word is not in us. - [1 John 1:5-10 NASB]

 

[Hobie]

Well Hobie, you give some good scriptures here but I might say that these that had the form never had the substance.
And please pardon me for being so sarcastic earlier. I know you are trying to do a good work. We all need to watch it!

So who judges whether its form or true substance, man tries to say this one is or that one, but fails by a long shot. Just look at all the ministers and religious leaders that have been found out to be holding on to some hidden sin, I dont even want to name names there are so many...

 

[Hobie]

You have conflated two distinct issues.

1. “many claim they believe, but only give lip service”
   • Yes, you are correct.
   • And He answered and said to them, "Why do you yourselves transgress the commandment of God for the sake of your tradition? "For God said, 'HONOR YOUR FATHER AND MOTHER,' and, 'HE WHO SPEAKS EVIL OF FATHER OR MOTHER IS TO BE PUT TO DEATH.' "But you say, 'Whoever says to [his] father or mother, "Whatever I have that would help you has been given to God," he is not to honor his father or his mother.' And by this you invalidated the word of God for the sake of your tradition. "You hypocrites, rightly did Isaiah prophesy of you: 'THIS PEOPLE HONORS ME WITH THEIR LIPS, BUT THEIR HEART IS FAR AWAY FROM ME. 'BUT IN VAIN DO THEY WORSHIP ME, TEACHING AS DOCTRINES THE PRECEPTS OF MEN.'" - [Matthew 15:3-9 NASB]
     
   • “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.’ - [Matthew 7:21-23]
2. “and secretly continue in sin.”
   • ALL of the Saints continue in sin.
   • This is the message we have heard from Him and announce to you, that God is Light, and in Him there is no darkness at all. If we say that we have fellowship with Him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth; but if we walk in the Light as He Himself is in the Light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin. If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar and His word is not in us. - [1 John 1:5-10 NASB]

I would have to disagree, as the true believers who are Christ depart from it...

2 Timothy 2:19
Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

And the false believers are separated and prepared for damnation....

Matthew 13:41
The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;

 

[SGO]

So who judges whether its form or true substance, man tries to say this one is or that one, but fails by a long shot. Just look at all the ministers and religious leaders that have been found out to be holding on to some hidden sin, I dont even want to name names there are so many...

Don't just stop at ministers and religious leaders.

 

[Sai]

I stopped sinning the moment I was saved.
The disposition of my soul is now holy and perfected in the Lord.

The life I now live is not my flesh, I am my newborn human spirit and because it is born of God I can not sin.


Joy unspeakable full of glory

 

[utilyan]

When does a Christian stop sinning?

When they want to. You can be sinless though and this does not SAVE YOU.


1 Corinthians 4

3But to me it is a very small thing that I may be examined by you, or by any human court; in fact, I do not even examine myself. 4For I am conscious of nothing against myself, yet I am not by this acquitted; but the one who examines me is the Lord. 5Therefore do not go on passing judgment before the time, but wait until the Lord comes who will both bring to light the things hidden in the darkness and disclose the motives of men’s hearts; and then each man’s praise will come to him from God.

Paul says far as he knows he has a clean slate and that does not save him. ->"I am conscious of nothing against myself, yet I am not by this acquitted;"


Not sinning is not impressive....its just plain NORMAL.

Luke 17

7“Which of you, having a slave plowing or tending sheep, will say to him when he has come in from the field, ‘Come immediately and sit down to eat’? 8“But will he not say to him, ‘Prepare something for me to eat, and properly clothe yourself and serve me while I eat and drink; and afterward you may eat and drink’? 9“He does not thank the slave because he did the things which were commanded, does he? 10“So you too, when you do all the things which are commanded you, say, ‘We are unworthy slaves; we have done only that which we ought to have done.’”



It is not IMPOSSIBLE to stop sinning. To think it is, is a sin against God. You are telling God that you are a bigger problem than he can handle. That you are greater at being a failure student then God is at being a great teacher.

Deuteronomy 30

11“For this commandment which I command you today is not too difficult for you, nor is it out of reach. 12“It is not in heaven, that you should say, ‘Who will go up to heaven for us to get it for us and make us hear it, that we may observe it?’ 13“Nor is it beyond the sea, that you should say, ‘Who will cross the sea for us to get it for us and make us hear it, that we may observe it?’ 14“But the word is very near you, in your mouth and in your heart, that you may observe it.


The YOLK IS EASY.

Matthew 11

28“Come to Me, all who are weary and heavy-laden, and I will give you rest. 29“Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and YOU WILL FIND REST FOR YOUR SOULS. 30“For My yoke is easy and My burden is light.”

God always gives you a way out.

1 Corinthians 10

13No temptation has overtaken you but such as is common to man; and God is faithful, who will not allow you to be tempted beyond what you are able, but with the temptation will provide the way of escape also, so that you will be able to endure it.


Not sinning is the easiest thing to do. When you DO sin.......its because YOU WANTED TO.

Not because God gave you a broken brain, a second rate heart, Not because God gave you a flawed nature. Those are just excuses to BLAME GOD.

I had every PERFECT opportunity to easily avoid every single sin I committed in my life. NO EXCUSES. I must repent, take responsibility and ask forgiveness IT WAS ALL my FAULT.

There is a middle ground you must accept God's forgiveness and forgive yourself and you must never give up and believe God can help you overcome your sinful habits. The more you can forgive others your trespasses the more God will open the door for you to forgive yourself.

Matthew 6

14“For if you forgive others for their transgressions, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. 15“But if you do not forgive others, then your Father will not forgive your transgressions.


LOVE, Kindness and Compassion are the highest priority.

When God sees you sin its like you are already suffering on fire. A good parent does not want to see you suffering.

A good parent is not upset when you are on fire because you are ruining the carpet and curtains, A good parent loves you, you are their priority. God loves you that is why he cannot stand sin.

1 timothy 1
5But the goal of our instruction is love from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith.

 

[Hobie]

When does a Christian stop sinning?

When they want to. You can be sinless though and this does not SAVE YOU.


1 Corinthians 4

3But to me it is a very small thing that I may be examined by you, or by any human court; in fact, I do not even examine myself. 4For I am conscious of nothing against myself, yet I am not by this acquitted; but the one who examines me is the Lord. 5Therefore do not go on passing judgment before the time, but wait until the Lord comes who will both bring to light the things hidden in the darkness and disclose the motives of men’s hearts; and then each man’s praise will come to him from God.

Paul says far as he knows he has a clean slate and that does not save him. ->"I am conscious of nothing against myself, yet I am not by this acquitted;"


Not sinning is not impressive....its just plain NORMAL.

Luke 17

7“Which of you, having a slave plowing or tending sheep, will say to him when he has come in from the field, ‘Come immediately and sit down to eat’? 8“But will he not say to him, ‘Prepare something for me to eat, and properly clothe yourself and serve me while I eat and drink; and afterward you may eat and drink’? 9“He does not thank the slave because he did the things which were commanded, does he? 10“So you too, when you do all the things which are commanded you, say, ‘We are unworthy slaves; we have done only that which we ought to have done.’”



It is not IMPOSSIBLE to stop sinning. To think it is, is a sin against God. You are telling God that you are a bigger problem than he can handle. That you are greater at being a failure student then God is at being a great teacher.

Deuteronomy 30

11“For this commandment which I command you today is not too difficult for you, nor is it out of reach. 12“It is not in heaven, that you should say, ‘Who will go up to heaven for us to get it for us and make us hear it, that we may observe it?’ 13“Nor is it beyond the sea, that you should say, ‘Who will cross the sea for us to get it for us and make us hear it, that we may observe it?’ 14“But the word is very near you, in your mouth and in your heart, that you may observe it.


The YOLK IS EASY.

Matthew 11

28“Come to Me, all who are weary and heavy-laden, and I will give you rest. 29“Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and YOU WILL FIND REST FOR YOUR SOULS. 30“For My yoke is easy and My burden is light.”

God always gives you a way out.

1 Corinthians 10

13No temptation has overtaken you but such as is common to man; and God is faithful, who will not allow you to be tempted beyond what you are able, but with the temptation will provide the way of escape also, so that you will be able to endure it.


Not sinning is the easiest thing to do. When you DO sin.......its because YOU WANTED TO.

Not because God gave you a broken brain, a second rate heart, Not because God gave you a flawed nature. Those are just excuses to BLAME GOD.

I had every PERFECT opportunity to easily avoid every single sin I committed in my life. NO EXCUSES. I must repent, take responsibility and ask forgiveness IT WAS ALL my FAULT.

There is a middle ground you must accept God's forgiveness and forgive yourself and you must never give up and believe God can help you overcome your sinful habits. The more you can forgive others your trespasses the more God will open the door for you to forgive yourself.

Matthew 6

14“For if you forgive others for their transgressions, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. 15“But if you do not forgive others, then your Father will not forgive your transgressions.


LOVE, Kindness and Compassion are the highest priority.

When God sees you sin its like you are already suffering on fire. A good parent does not want to see you suffering.

A good parent is not upset when you are on fire because you are ruining the carpet and curtains, A good parent loves you, you are their priority. God loves you that is why he cannot stand sin.

1 timothy 1
5But the goal of our instruction is love from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith.

No, it is through the power of God not man, and there does come a time which God says it ends...

Revelation 22:11
He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.

 

[utilyan]

No, it is through the power of God not man, and there does come a time which God says it ends...

Revelation 22:11
He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.

Its by the power of of God anything happens at all from breathing to sneezing.

Tell me this verse is a LIE and I'll believe you. You tell me what is wrong with this verse, Or you tell me what it actually means.

Deuteronomy 30

11“For this commandment which I command you today is not too difficult for you, nor is it out of reach. 12“It is not in heaven, that you should say, ‘Who will go up to heaven for us to get it for us and make us hear it, that we may observe it?’ 13“Nor is it beyond the sea, that you should say, ‘Who will cross the sea for us to get it for us and make us hear it, that we may observe it?’ 14“But the word is very near you, in your mouth and in your heart, that you may observe it.

 

[Hobie]

Don't just stop at ministers and religious leaders.

Thats why many who claim they are christians will find out at the judgement that they had no real relationship with Chirst.

 

[Hobie]

Its by the power of of God anything happens at all from breathing to sneezing.

Tell me this verse is a LIE and I'll believe you. You tell me what is wrong with this verse, Or you tell me what it actually means.

Deuteronomy 30

11“For this commandment which I command you today is not too difficult for you, nor is it out of reach. 12“It is not in heaven, that you should say, ‘Who will go up to heaven for us to get it for us and make us hear it, that we may observe it?’ 13“Nor is it beyond the sea, that you should say, ‘Who will cross the sea for us to get it for us and make us hear it, that we may observe it?’ 14“But the word is very near you, in your mouth and in your heart, that you may observe it.

Notice the verses you left out...
15 See, I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil;

16 In that I command thee this day to love the Lord thy God, to walk in his ways, and to keep his commandments and his statutes and his judgments, that thou mayest live and multiply: and the Lord thy God shall bless thee in the land whither thou goest to possess it.

17 But if thine heart turn away, so that thou wilt not hear, but shalt be drawn away, and worship other gods, and serve them;

18 I denounce unto you this day, that ye shall surely perish, and that ye shall not prolong your days upon the land, whither thou passest over Jordan to go to possess it.

19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:

20 That thou mayest love the Lord thy God, and that thou mayest obey his voice, and that thou mayest cleave unto him: for he is thy life, and the length of thy days: that thou mayest dwell in the land which the Lord sware unto thy fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to give them.

I think its clear it agrees with the rest of scripture..
Revelation 12:17
And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Revelation 14:12
Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Revelation 22:14
Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

 

[Hobie]

Hey Hobie,
I just read that first verse reference you gave and now I can say that you have pointed out to me the first real contradiction in the bible!

All that the father giveth me shall come to me;
and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
John 6:37

Or, the people God is talking about in the Matthew passage never really had been given to Him.
You want to stick with your interpretation and maybe some time in the future when you lose heart or have a really bad day lose your salvation?
Wow man! You are really strong!
I am weak.

Did Christ cast out Judas, no He did not, as Judas chose to do what he thought was right but it was Satan leading him.

Luke 22:2-4 King James Version (KJV)

2 And the chief priests and scribes sought how they might kill him; for they feared the people.
3 Then entered Satan into Judas surnamed Iscariot, being of the number of the twelve.
4 And he went his way, and communed with the chief priests and captains, how he might betray him unto them.

 

[SGO]

Did Christ cast out Judas, no He did not, as Judas chose to do what he thought was right but it was Satan leading him.

Luke 22:2-4 King James Version (KJV)

2 And the chief priests and scribes sought how they might kill him; for they feared the people.
3 Then entered Satan into Judas surnamed Iscariot, being of the number of the twelve.
4 And he went his way, and communed with the chief priests and captains, how he might betray him unto them.

Judas may or may not have been an exception:

While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.
John 17:12

So how about another example of one who came to Him whom He cast out?

 

[Hobie]

Judas may or may not have been an exception:

While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.
John 17:12

So how about another example of one who came to Him whom He cast out?

I think no matter how many examples are given, you will find a excuse to set it aside. Gods Word and its truth must be ignored it seems by some..

 

[SGO]

Just one more example?
I mean from the Bible, not just me.

 

[Hobie]

Its by the power of of God anything happens at all from breathing to sneezing.

Tell me this verse is a LIE and I'll believe you. You tell me what is wrong with this verse, Or you tell me what it actually means.

Deuteronomy 30

11“For this commandment which I command you today is not too difficult for you, nor is it out of reach. 12“It is not in heaven, that you should say, ‘Who will go up to heaven for us to get it for us and make us hear it, that we may observe it?’ 13“Nor is it beyond the sea, that you should say, ‘Who will cross the sea for us to get it for us and make us hear it, that we may observe it?’ 14“But the word is very near you, in your mouth and in your heart, that you may observe it.

Many think they read the Bible and yet its right in from of them and they cannot see what the word that is very near...

Exodus 20:8-11 Young's Literal Translation (YLT)
8 `Remember the Sabbath-day to sanctify it;
9 six days thou dost labour, and hast done all thy work,
10 and the seventh day [is] a Sabbath to Jehovah thy God; thou dost not do any work, thou, and thy son, and thy daughter, thy man-servant, and thy handmaid, and thy cattle, and thy sojourner who is within thy gates, --
11 for six days hath Jehovah made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that [is] in them, and resteth in the seventh day; therefore hath Jehovah blessed the Sabbath-day, and doth sanctify it.