When does God strictly enforce His Soveriegnty?

[Earth Wind and Fire]

If God is not sovereign at all times then this would mean he is not in full control at all times, so this would mean at times he is not in control he would not be God because he would be in subjection to that something at that time that was in control when God isn't, so therefore that something would be god part time.

Go further.... maybe not at all. Then there is no God. Congratulation's we are all atheist's.

 

[pinoybaptist]

Here's a reason for this thread right here in another thread the 'Rev' has started.

http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?p=2085311#post2085311

and possibly in connection to still another thread on which the 'Rev' posted also, right here:
http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?p=2085192#post2085192

 

[Van]

If we define Sovereignty as God causing or allowing whatsoever comes to pass, then when God is allowing sin, He is still sovereign. However, if God causes directly or indirectly whatsoever comes to pass, then if we are responsible for our sin, He is not sovereign because He did not cause it.

Anyone can play these games.

 

[Iconoclast]

There is no such thing. He is sovereign all the time, period. It is impossible to be lightly sovereign and strictly sovereign. You are either sovereign or you are not. There has never been nor will there ever be anyone who has control above God. God is in control in the mist of man's will. Allowing choice is not the loss of control or lack of or lessoning of sovereignty. We could not sin if He was not sovereign to allow it.

Of course you are correct Judith...there might be those who do not understand the scripture who would offer false "counsel" on this issue, nevertheless scripture means just what it says:
9 Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me,

10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:

11 Calling a ravenous bird from the east, the man that executeth my counsel from a far country: yea, I have spoken it, I will also bring it to pass; I have purposed it, I will also do it.

 

[Revmitchell]

And then there are those who will take scripture out of context and then misapply it to meet their presupposition.

 

[Iconoclast]

And then there are those who will take scripture out of context and then misapply it to meet their presupposition.

Ah yes...and thankfully there are many who see that scripture is presuppositional.......In beginning God.....

so they are no longer afraid to let God reveal himself as absolutely Sovereign in all things, trusting Him in all his holy attributes..unlike the heathen who create a god in mans image so they can limit his sovereign control...
115 Not unto us, O Lord, not unto us, but unto thy name give glory, for thy mercy, and for thy truth's sake.

2 Wherefore should the heathen say, Where is now their God?

3 But our God is in the heavens: he hath done whatsoever he hath pleased.

4 Their idols are silver and gold, the work of men's hands.

5 They have mouths, but they speak not: eyes have they, but they see not:

6 They have ears, but they hear not: noses have they, but they smell not:

7 They have hands, but they handle not: feet have they, but they walk not: neither speak they through their throat.

8 They that make them are like unto them; so is every one that trusteth in them.

 

[Greektim]

One thing this thread shows is everyone puts their own little nuances on doctrine that it is difficult to have a discussion without talking past one another.

We cannot just make a clear statement without someone trying to nuance it to death to fit their own worldview.

You can nuance; that is what theology does. Ever since the homoi- homo- debate over Jesus' divinity.

I would like to hear a response, though, of whether God simply has but does not (or does not enforce) use his authority. I made the assertion that every single passage in Scripture speaks of God's authority always set in the realm of BOTH having AND using absolute authority.

 

[Greektim]

If we define Sovereignty as God causing or allowing whatsoever comes to pass, then when God is allowing sin, He is still sovereign. However, if God causes directly or indirectly whatsoever comes to pass, then if we are responsible for our sin, He is not sovereign because He did not cause it.

Anyone can play these games.

Isa 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

 

[prophet]

Isa 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

"Evil"is not = to "sin".
Not all sin is evil, not all evil is sin.
God can do evil, God can't sin.

 

[Revmitchell]

You can nuance; that is what theology does. Ever since the homoi- homo- debate over Jesus' divinity.

I would like to hear a response, though, of whether God simply has but does not (or does not enforce) use his authority. I made the assertion that every single passage in Scripture speaks of God's authority always set in the realm of BOTH having AND using absolute authority.

Did God make you write this post?

 

[Van]

Isa 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

Yes, God does create calamity. An environment that adversely affects us, such as the huge wave that killed more than 100,000 people.

But in order for something to be sin, it must oppose God. Yes, some hyper-Calvinists say God causes our sin and then punishes us for the sin He caused, and then they say that demonstrates His glory. I am not making this up.

But most Calvinists say God is not the author of sin, and therefore the calamity in view in Isaiah 45:7 is not sinful.