When Does Life Begin?

[Palatka51]

Quite simple. Adam was not born out of his mother's womb. Adam was created by God as a grown man. He was created from the dust of the earth (only God can do that). But as you have seen, God created all the animal world as well, and He did not breathed into them as He breathed into Adam. That is why men are unique, men are actually created to the "image" or similitude of God (who is a Spirit), therefore as old Billy Grahgam used to say, "man is a spirit and he has a body." With Adam there was no conception, only creation and the selfsame day he was a man. But when the blessings of a motherhood is taking place in a human being (a woman), an individual being is created by God - and life begins indeed anew at conception and not when the baby comes out of the womb and takes the first breath. :type:

Good post Barnabas, I was in thought and typing my response and it seems that the Holy Spirit carried both of us in the same direction. :godisgood:

 

[Barnabas H.]

Good post Barnabas, I was in thought and typing my response and it seems that the Holy Spirit carried both of us in the same direction. :godisgood:

Indeed. PTL! :thumbs:

 

[Barnabas H.]

Many, as is shown here, say that life begins at conception. We are talking about Biblical life, not biological.
Gen. 2:7 says "Yahveh God (The LORD God) formed the man from the dust of the earth and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life and the man became a living being."

Crabtownboy, when you are referring to "Biblical life," could you explain just what do you mean? By the way, what translation did you use for Gen. 2:7? For my Bible says "And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul" (KJV). My previous post was based on the interpretation of that verse, to which Palatka51 joined similarly almost the same time. As I see it there is some kind of a misunderstanding here since in the Politics forum you already hinted that life begins when a newborn takes the first breath. This would be indeed in line with those who are in favor of abortion - but not in line with the teachings of the Bible. You need to explain further your position, and I trust you will do it prayerfully. :type:

 

[Amy.G]

I am still shocked that "Christians" would even ask this question.

Pitiful.

 

[Palatka51]

People have got to get their hearts right with the bringer of life and then they will see without any doubt where and when it begins. It begins with God....... PERIOD!! God started life with a blast of His Breath into the nostrils of a lump of dead clay. Then from then own He (God) instituted that a man should leave father and mother and cleave unto his wife and the two shall be one. In that joining life begins. God ordained it people now let's set our hearts right to Him and do what He requires us to do.

PROTECT THE INNOCENT!!!

Mel

 

[LeBuick]

I believe that God knew of my existence, and had prepared my soul for this body long before the earth was even created.

So, every embryo likewise has the promise of a God-given soul from the moment of conception. Every child concieved in the womb has a soul created by God to inhabit that body.

Who are we to change God's plan by killing the body before the soul takes a breath?

Isnt killing God's promise of life , and God's plan for that life, the same thing, if not worse than outright murder?

AJ

I admire your willingness to go outside the box and think for yourself... :applause:

However, I will say you are combining spiritual life with physical life which are not one in the same. Clearly Paul says the day will come when the earthly tabernacle (physical body) will desolve yet the spirit will live on in a building not made by hands. I believe the two come together at birth and seperate at death (ghost left the body). This means I disagree that the embryo contains a soul but am the first to admit I could be wrong and your statement could be 100% accurate... :thumbs:

Yet many a man is physically alive and spiritually dead. This is because to be spiritually alive one must be "born again". I take Jesus analogy to mean we are born once into life and "born again" into eternal life.

In this thinking, can Abortion kill the spirit?

I know abortion denies a soul an earthly tabernacle but I truly wonder what that means??? Did we deny them the tree of life? Were they denied the path of salvation since we were conceived in iniquity?

Can man change God's plan?

 

[LeBuick]

I am speaking solely about abortion, and when life begins, not birth control. I am simply saying that if a fetus is concieved, then God has a soul reserved from the beginning of time for that fetus, and that what you refer to as "potential life" is a life that God already had a plan for long before we were around. I feel it is very wrong to mess with God's plans for life.

AJ

Another interesting point, just wanted to bounce this "out of the box" thought off you. This "reserved soul", is it possible for God to place it in a different earthly tabernacle or was this soul reserved exclusively for one fetus?

 

[SaggyWoman]

Life begins at God.

 

[Joe]

I admire your willingness to go outside the box and think for yourself... :applause:

However, I will say you are combining spiritual life with physical life which are not one in the same. Clearly Paul says the day will come when the earthly tabernacle (physical body) will desolve yet the spirit will live on in a building not made by hands. I believe the two come together at birth and seperate at death (ghost left the body). This means I disagree that the embryo contains a soul but am the first to admit I could be wrong and your statement could be 100% accurate... :thumbs:

Yet many a man is physically alive and spiritually dead[/U]. This is because to be spiritually alive one must be "born again". I take Jesus analogy to mean we are born once into life and "born again" into eternal life.

In this thinking, can Abortion kill the spirit?

I know abortion denies a soul an earthly tabernacle but I truly wonder what that means??? Did we deny them the tree of life? Were they denied the path of salvation since we were conceived in iniquity?

Can man change God's plan?

Maybe I need to start a new thread. I've heard this before but am just asking now because of your post. You don't need to answer if you don't want to.

I underlined your statements which seems to conflict with one another because it says the spirit comes at birth and the spirit separates at death (leaves the body) Then you say a man can be spiritually dead.

If a man is spiritualy dead, what spirit leaves the body at the physical death? Is one spirit figurative?

 

[LeBuick]

Quite simple. Adam was not born out of his mother's womb. Adam was created by God as a grown man. He was created from the dust of the earth (only God can do that). But as you have seen, God created all the animal world as well, and He did not breathed into them as He breathed into Adam. That is why men are unique, men are actually created to the "image" or similitude of God (who is a Spirit), therefore as old Billy Grahgam used to say, "man is a spirit and he has a body." With Adam there was no conception, only creation and the selfsame day he was a man. But when the blessings of a motherhood is taking place in a human being (a woman), an individual being is created by God - and life begins indeed anew at conception and not when the baby comes out of the womb and takes the first breath. :type:

First let's deal with the obvious, animals don't have a spirit so it doesn't matter if they are hatched etc... so no God didn't breathed into them etc...

I love your ability to consider the spirit and body seperately. Not many here can do that. So let's focus just on the body or that which began from the dust;

You say Adam was the only man formed from the dust of the earth and so he was the only one who had life breathed into his nostril's. This verse here, is this for all mankind or just for Adam?

Gen 3:19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.

The reason I ask, Job seems to think he is like Adam;

Job 33:4 The Spirit of God hath made me, and the breath of the Almighty hath given me life.

 

[LeBuick]

As I see it there is some kind of a misunderstanding here since in the Politics forum you already hinted that life begins when a newborn takes the first breath. This would be indeed in line with those who are in favor of abortion - but not in line with the teachings of the Bible. You need to explain further your position, and I trust you will do it prayerfully.

I think you make an assumption here that is not fair. I don't think when life begins has anything to do with abortion from a Christian perspective. yes it is true I don't call abortion murder but I further believe it doesn't have to be murder to be wrong. From discussions I see just the opposite, pro-lifers appear to must prove life begins before birth in order to say it's murder which then give scripture evidence of it being wrong.

 

[LeBuick]

I underlined your statements which seems to conflict with one another because it says the spirit comes at birth and the spirit separates at death (leaves the body) Then you say a man can be spiritually dead.

If a man is spiritualy dead, what spirit leaves the body at the physical death? Is one spirit figurative?

I intentionally did that...

"Spiritually dead" deals with what happens to the soul once it leaves the body. In this case it means separation from God where dead implies eternity in hell and alive implies eternally living with Christ. However, we must always keep the fact that God is a spirit when we have these discussions.

So there is physically dead when the soul separates from the physical body then there is spiritually dead where the spirit is separated from God.

 

[LeBuick]

Life begins at God.

:applause: :applause: :thumbs: :godisgood:

 

[Joe]

I intentionally did that...

"Spiritually dead" deals with what happens to the soul once it leaves the body. In this case it means separation from God where dead implies eternity in hell and alive implies eternally living with Christ. However, we must always keep the fact that God is a spirit when we have these discussions.

So there is physically dead when the soul separates from the physical body then there is spiritually dead where the spirit is separated from God.

Ok, know this, thank you. Thought you might have something new under the sun Maybe next time lol

 

[RevJWWhiteJr]

Life Begins ??

Life begins at God.

Correct !!
When does life Begin? :laugh: That’s funny. It doesn’t begin. It BEGAN. It was once (and only once) instigated by God.

“I” am as pro-life as they come.

The following is an excerpt from The Partial Rapture Theory Explained. Life began with Adam, per the breath of God. All other human life throughout history is the continuation of that life.

Quote : The illustration and comparison of the rebirth experience can be seen in Jesus’ discussion of that process with Nicodemus. In that lesson Jesus likens the spiritual birth to the physical birth. Nicodemus was understandably confused when Jesus told him that a person must be born again.

He was, of course, speaking of a believers rebirth through the Spirit of God which was to be initiated with his physical death on the cross (in its representation of his spiritual death/separation from the Father) and subsequent resurrection from the grave. But by comparing the salvation experience to the birth process, Jesus places the condition of permanency on the final state.

Once an individual is physically conceived there is no process that can reverse or change who the biological parents of the offspring are. (And make no mistake, conception is the continuation of the pre-existence of life given by God. “Any” willful interruption of that process constitutes a deliberate extermination of the continuation of life).

By the same token, once a person is reborn through the Spirit of God, they become a child of God never again to be anything else. Our relationship to God is not in question, he is our heavenly Father. Our fellowship, however is quite a different matter. It is the fellowship with our Heavenly Father (or in most cases the lack of fellowship) that we will be investigating. End Quote.

Genesis 1:28
And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish ( FILL ) the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

RevJW. :thumbs:

 

[Palatka51]

However, I will say you are combining spiritual life with physical life which are not one in the same. Clearly Paul says the day will come when the earthly tabernacle (physical body) will desolve yet the spirit will live on in a building not made by hands. I believe the two come together at birth and seperate at death (ghost left the body). This means I disagree that the embryo contains a soul but am the first to admit I could be wrong and your statement could be 100% accurate...

So the body within the mother is on life support and not a life in and of itself? But if there is no life within the mother there would be no need for "life support." God geared the woman's body to support life, not for her body to become a killing field. Even during the first few months the mother continues to provide life support in nursing the child. Life is there at conception LeBuick.

When the "Ghost is given up" that body is completely dead and no longer gets any life support. It would be ludicrous to hook it up to a heart monitor, provide forced Oxygen into its lungs, compress the chest for CPR, provide a feeding tube and then hook up pumps to circulate blood through dialysis for cleansing. The body would simply rot through all that effort.

In the mother, life is present. All the support is taken by the body within her. It grows to maturity for birth. It does not rot.

I have already told the story of my brother that was still born. His body had to be removed from my mother because he died within her. If he was not life (as you have suggested that it isn't until it has breath) then how is it that he died in the first place? If he was allowed to stay there, he would have began to decay and also cause the death of my mother. Mother's body had already begun to shut down from life support because the baby was dead. This is what made her go to the Dr as she began to bleed. The Dr then took the body from her and pronounced the baby dead.

Life begins at conception, get your heart right with the Giver of Life and you will see too that the Scripture bears this out as truth.

 

[Barnabas H.]

I think you make an assumption here that is not fair. I don't think when life begins has anything to do with abortion from a Christian perspective. yes it is true I don't call abortion murder but I further believe it doesn't have to be murder to be wrong. From discussions I see just the opposite, pro-lifers appear to must prove life begins before birth in order to say it's murder which then give scripture evidence of it being wrong.

Just a point of information, the original question was, "When does life begin?" This was a carry-over item from the Polictics' forum from a thread which dealt with the dilemma of voting for a presidential candidate who is pro-abortionist. Before the discussion would have hijacked the thread I asked Crabtownboy to open another thread which would deal with this topic.

Now, before I would address the question you raised I would like to ask what is your answer to this, "When does life begin?" As you may observe, the overwhelming majority has checked the line "At conception" in the poll. That is what I believe also, and I have asked further clarification from Crabtownboy on Gen. 2:7. But before I would have gotten a satisfactory answer you interjected a couple of posts and came up with another Bible verse from Job 33:4, where Elihu is speaking, as he tries to convince Job that he also is a creation of God and the breath of the Almighty given him life (more precisely, "the breath of the almighty inspired him"), therefore he should be heard as a spokes person of God. At the end, we know that God rebukes "Job's miserable comforters" and asks Job to pray for them.

You asked for Biblical confirmation on the beginning of life in the womb, and on a short notice I can give you one, which proves two things: 1) That God forms life in the womb, and 2) God knows the developing fetus as a person. Here is the Bible verse:

Jeremiah 1:5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.

 

[Thinkingstuff]

Life begins before conception? Please explain.

I basically mean that life begins with the intention of God and that happen before the creation of the world. Life begins with God. Before the foundations were laid God knew us personally. We as humans just participate with Gods creative activity when conception happens.

 

[Deacon]

I basically mean that life begins with the intention of God ...

The question in the OP (When does life begin?) doesn't really need to be answered if we understand your point.

God knows each and every human being even before they were conceived.

All children are a special gift, a heritage from God.

Man is created in God’s likeness and each human being is precious to Him.

Since we don't know God's intention, we as Christians should honor and respect life.

Rob

 

[LeBuick]

You asked for Biblical confirmation on the beginning of life in the womb, and on a short notice I can give you one, which proves two things: 1) That God forms life in the womb, and 2) God knows the developing fetus as a person. Here is the Bible verse:

Jeremiah 1:5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.

Actually this verse says BEFORE I formed thee in the belly. This has to be dealing with the spirit and not the flesh for he says I knew you before there was flesh.

I believe life begins at birth but not so I can say abortion is right, I believe the Bible makes it clear (to me that is) that life begins with first breath and the last breath is when the spirit leaves the body (gave up the ghost).