When does modern start?

Well, you know, we cannot all look young.

 

It's so nice to read an informed post on the BB!

When one says "modern," I think in terms of vs. postmodern. I don't even use the word "modern."

Actually, the word "modern" for today is very passe and means nothing unless you are speaking of what was posted by Moritz.

Maybe a better word would be "trendy" or "current.

 

Anything that happened after the Middle Ages is modern, thus the modern era began about AD 1500.

 

Since the technology we have didn't start until the 20th century, then I would hsave to say that is when "modern" began, but that's just an opinion.

 

For me no doubt modern starts with Francis Bacon and with Descartes.

 

For me, in the church world, "modern" is anytime we figure the culture sets the standards and the churches need to fit into those standards.

I personally believe that has things backwards--the churches should be setting the standards in their communities.

That doesn't mean things should never change--just that the unsaved culture doesn't call the tunes.

So while a church might decide it is a good thing to embrace the "modern music" it should do so because the church believes that music is most appropriate to the service, not because "the lost won't come unless we rock'em."

A church might decide they need new pew Bibles and decide to go with a "modern" version instead of KJV provided they choose one that they believe is very accurate. But if they choose it because it panders to some unsaved group (like a few that have used "sexual deviant or sexually immoral" rather than confront homosexuallity) then I believe they do wrong.

I believe we can update our clothing, our language, our music, and our methods and still be true to scripture.

The rub is that often we update trying to be popular with the culture of the lost.

 

nodak said:

More often than not, I would say. Being seperate from the world entails being different, and that isn't a comfortable feeling. Most people want to accepted...something needy in their psychological and spiritual makeup.
It is indeed tough to withstand the darts of the evil one.

I would rather be accepted in the beloved.

 

Around here most churches look like they just stepped out of the 1950's, especially inside the church buildings. The same mentality as the interior holds sway, too... at least in Baptist circles.

If people would wake up and stop jousting at the past and look at where they are in the world they could make an impact for God. Instead they want to argue about a carpet color being too worldly, or preach against the evils of "rock and roll", or rail at a woman who is not wearing a full length skirt and hair down to her behind. People are dying and falling headlong into the fires of hell but the church is wrapped up in its blanket of "the good old days" and is satisfied to let the multitudes die in their state.

What all churches, fundamental or not, needs to realize is that they are in the here and now. Stop living in the past and reach out to those who are dying lost in sin. Yes, you will have to step out of your black and white memories and into the dirty, gritty world of today. That doesn't mean you have to become the world... but it does mean you have to take off the stained-window glasses and see what is happening.

Besides, when did "fundamental" mean taking the focus off of Jesus and focusing on making sure everyone goosesteps in time to legalistic rules laid down by men? Fundamental means holding to the foundations of the faith... and they apply no matter what the day and age.

 

Trotter, you know I go to a soulwinning, gospel-outreaching church. Fundamental -yes we are. We hold to the truth of the Bible, and we hold to Baptist distinctives.
We are old-fashioned, and we reach out to the lost. You can do both and it works fine.

 

if the people your reaching out to aren't living in the past your not effective in your outreach. modern in no way has to mean compromising the gospel, but thats what people who can't see past 1900 will always revert too, never being able to tell the difference. Some people do live in the past, so this kind of church will be able to reach them, but there are also people who do not live in the past and this church will not reach them.
Theres nothing more holy about 'old time' anything. Because when that old time was happening it was the new and modern to those christians alive then.

 

Must be a geographical thing--maybe I live in a more trendy area! LOL!

Around here you won't find ANY Baptist churches that look and act like the 1950's--not even the independent fundamentalist one is like that.

But I have seen churches go not to find out the most accurate or readable translation for their church to use, but rather to the Christian Booksellers best seller list to choose a translation. Dangerous!

And I have seen churches not plan the music to go with the sermon topic, but rather check the top ten play list from Christian radio for the week to find out which songs they were singing. Never mind if the theology of the song conflicts with the teachings of that church.

So around here the cry "we have to modernize to reach folks" would be just false.

And I find it interesting that so many surveys like Barna's keep coming up that the unsaved and unchurched (who may or may not be saved) want church to be churchy--buildings, furnishings, instruments, music, etc.

And yet we church people keep trying to get unchurchy to reach them.

Confusing.

 

Donna, I will say this once, and I won't bother with you after this. You are wrong. Our outreach is very effective because we pray and we seek God's guidance and leadership. That is the ONLY way souls will be won. You can put on any dog and pony show you like, but without the Holy Spirit and a lot of prayer, it is pointless. So we will do it our way, and you do it whatever way it is that you do it, and you leave me alone and stop telling me what I am thinking and what I believe.

Jesus is the same, yesterday, today, and tomorrow. He doesn't change. Living in the past is not an issue that even applies here.

 

I took a young friend to lunch one day, and this very subject came up. I was inviting her to church. I thought since she is young and dresses very stylish and is more of my children's generation, she would find my church out of style. But she surprised me, she said "I am looking for a church with a traditional choir, I love to sing, and I don't like praise hymns and stuff like that" and I said "Pepper, you have found the church you are looking for - we have a 4 part choir and we sing to the glory of God and have a great time doing it."

She is coming from a Lutheran background. I am praying for her.

 

boy your nasty today aren't you.
what I said was in some areas people do not live in the past and attempting to reach them in the past will not work. if you live inan area like this then it works for your church. for those who do not it will not work. Paul taught about meeting people where they are, not expecting them to conform to our nonbiblical rules.
for some pride plays such a big part in their lives they do not actually care about reaching the lost, just in being old, and expect if you don't like it don't come to our church.

 

Right on. Preach it.

Actually, it is always an issue. We don't have to become the world, but we need to know what's going on in today's lives to be able to reach them. That doesn't call for tossing out everything and redesigning churches to look like night clubs or dance halls... but it does call for knowing the burdens of those around us and showing these people the love of Christ where they are. So many times I have seen Christians witness to others, but these well-meaning brothers and sisters are so out of touch with where non-church people are in life, that the ones they are witnessing to think that they have pull themselves up by their bootstraps and clean up their lives before they can come to Christ. I know... I was one of them once upon a time.

God does not change. Jesus Christ the Son does not change. The Holy Spirit does not change. But the world we live in does change and we have to be ready and able to address how an unchanging God can still reach those who are caught up the ebb and flow of this present world.

 

some voted 1900 and on is modern, and osme voted 1500 and on is modern. if they believe this, then why are they on the computer, why do they own cars, have air conditioning, refigerators, microwaves, and still be against anything modern?
if your against anything modern, then you need to examine your life and get rid of all the modern stuff you have. otherwise you don't really beleive this at all. people who beleive in being stuck in the past probably have a lot in their homes that make them hypocrites.

 

donnA, just because people prefer things done in a traditional manner does not make them "stuck in the past." There is nothing hypocritical, either, in the fact that I am sitting here typing on a computer, while heating with wood and drying my clothes on a wooden rack by the woodstove.

Give us some sound reasons for your preferences and we might listen harder.

But ungraceful attacks won't get us there.

 

if you make the claim you prefer the past, then your violating what you claim your preference is.
would eliminate people from your church who prefer not to live in the past? some here would.

 

I absolutely believe that anyone can come to the saving knowledge of Jesus Christ no matter where they are in the world or in life. I don't believe that a church needs to change in order for that to happen.

Let the world change....but let the church be as solid as a rock.

 

interesting, I was doing the same with my laptop, feeling the warmth from
my woodburning stove.

AMEN! Ungraceful attacks only hurt and strike at the orator, not the topic. Argue with substance and care.