When does the rapture take place?

[convicted1]

Don't you know smoking is bad for your health. Better delete that before S/N sees it. He gets pretty tough sometimes. Don't know how those flat land furriers would make it in Crum though.

Flat land furriers? Shoot, I live where the people in the mountains, have to look up to see the top of the mountains. Sure ain't no flat land here.....


Smoking is bad on your health, I concur. I have been quit for almost 7.5 years, but may start back up if I don't quit coming here....:laugh:

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

Don't you know smoking is bad for your health.

It was a cyber-"cee-gar" -- not known to cause mouth, throat or lung cancer. :thumbsup:

 

[OldRegular]

Flat land furriers? Shoot, I live where the people in the mountains, have to look up to see the top of the mountains. Sure ain't no flat land here.....

That flat land fernier was S/N!

 

[convicted1]

That flat land fernier was S/N!

Ooopsy...... :/

 

[prophet]

When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place,
(whoso readeth, let him understand: ) Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains
But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day: Matt 24:15-16, 20
[because on the Sabbath, you will be limited to a "Sabbath Day's Journey" of about 50 yards!]
This, of course means that you are an Orthodox Jew practicing all of the Mosaic Law (including sacrifice offerings).

Colossians 2:15-16 (small section, but gives the summary) reminds us that a few days after Jesus had that private discussion with His Church (Matt. 24-25), he did away with that same Sabbath. But at the time He spoke, it was relevant: Not because they wouldn't be able to flee more than 50 steps, but rather that the stores would all be closed.

 

[OldRegular]

When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place,
(whoso readeth, let him understand: ) Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains
But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day: Matt 24:15-16, 20
[because on the Sabbath, you will be limited to a "Sabbath Day's Journey" of about 50 yards!]
This, of course means that you are an Orthodox Jew practicing all of the Mosaic Law (including sacrifice offerings).

Jesus Christ is talking here about the destruction of Jerusalem in 70AD by Rome.

 

[TipofTheTongueTheology]

Compare End Time Passages...

Very simply put, I have a very hard time pinpointing when the rapture of the saints will take place, Please give bible support for when you think the timing of the rapture is.

Go to the Bible to compare end time passages without any presuppositions. For example, compare the following three passages: Matt 24:27-31, 1 Thess 4:15-17, and 1 cor 15:52. See how they are similar and how they are not and decide whether they are talking about the same event. If they are, then Jesus will return to rapture the church, immediately after the tribulation. You may not know the exact day/time but you can discern the seasons.

also, for further material on this matter go to the following link:

http://tipofthetonguetheology.blogspot.com/search/label/Eschatology


Respectfully, :thumbsup:
Tip of the Tongue Theology
http://tipofthetonguetheology.blogspot.com

 

[prophet]

Go to the Bible to compare end time passages without any presuppositions. For example, compare the following three passages: Matt 24:27-31, 1 Thess 4:15-17, and 1 cor 15:52. See how they are similar and how they are not and decide whether they are talking about the same event. If they are, then Jesus will return to rapture the church, immediately after the tribulation. You may not know the exact day/time but you can discern the seasons.

also, for further material on this matter go to the following link:

http://tipofthetonguetheology.blogspot.com/search/label/Eschatology


Respectfully, :thumbsup:
Tip of the Tongue Theology
http://tipofthetonguetheology.blogspot.com

Amen. I would add that no Baptist, before Darby-the-Presby-heretick published his garbage, believed in a 'pre-trib' resurrection.

 

[HankD]

And here is a picture of the Return of Jesus Christ:

2 Peter 3:1-14
1. This second epistle, beloved, I now write unto you; in both which I stir up your pure minds by way of remembrance:
2. That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour:
3. Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
4. And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
5. For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
6. Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
7. But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
8. But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
9. The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
10. But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11. Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12. Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13. Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
14. Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.

Verses 1 & 2 show this is written to Christians as do the introduction in Chapter 1.

Verse 4 rules out this happening after the 7 year tribulation.

Verse 10 shows this is not the Rapture.

Verses 10-13 are consistent with Revelation 20-22.

Perhaps Peter is adressing the entire scope of the Second Coming.

I believe J Vernon McGee sees the second Coming of Jesus Christ as starting with the "rapture" and ending with the revolt at the end of the "millennium" with the destruction (or material renovation) of planet earth and the advent of the new heavens and new earth.

IOW verses 1-6 deal with the first phase (pre-millennial) and verses 7-13 deal with the destruction of and/or renovation of material heaven and earth.

Another issue is - the book of Revelation and its interpretation as related to its structure.

Many believe the Book of Revelation is not structured as a linear time continuum but a chiasmus which has a bearing on its overall interpretation.

IOW there may be repetitions of the same events mirrored from its beginning chapters in its ending chapters.

Most chaistic interpreters agree that Chapter 12 is the centerpiece of the Book.

Example of a short chiasmus: When you fail to plan, you plan to fail.

Here is one example of a chiastic view of the Book of Revelation:

http://www.explordanrev.com/wp/?page_id=3793

If it interests you (or anyone) you can do a Google on "revelation as a chiasmus" and come up with quite a few variations.

HankD

 

[saturneptune]

Very simply put, I have a very hard time pinpointing when the rapture of the saints will take place, Please give bible support for when you think the timing of the rapture is.

If one believes in the Rapture, it will happen between the end of the church age of grace and the start of the Tribulation.

 

[OldRegular]

Perhaps Peter is adressing the entire scope of the Second Coming.

I believe J Vernon McGee sees the second Coming of Jesus Christ as starting with the "rapture" and ending with the revolt at the end of the "millennium" with the destruction (or material renovation) of planet earth and the advent of the new heavens and new earth.

IOW verses 1-6 deal with the first phase (pre-millennial) and verses 7-13 deal with the destruction of and/or renovation of material heaven and earth.

Another issue is - the book of Revelation and its interpretation as related to its structure.

Many believe the Book of Revelation is not structured as a linear time continuum but a chiasmus which has a bearing on its overall interpretation.

IOW there may be repetitions of the same events mirrored from its beginning chapters in its ending chapters.

Most chaistic interpreters agree that Chapter 12 is the centerpiece of the Book.

Example of a short chiasmus: When you fail to plan, you plan to fail.

Here is one example of a chiastic view of the Book of Revelation:

http://www.explordanrev.com/wp/?page_id=3793

If it interests you (or anyone) you can do a Google on "revelation as a chiasmus" and come up with quite a few variations.

HankD

Enjoyed McGee as long as he stuck to Scripture and away from Dispensationalism. I do not believe that Revelation presents a timeline of events whether of the Church age {the millennium} or the so-called Great Tribulation. I do believe that it presents the struggle between good and evil during the Church age in seven different pictures Chapter 4 thru 20:9 with certain interludes. The New Geneva/Reformation Bible presents the verses applicable to the seven pictures.

 

[OldRegular]

If one believes in the Rapture, it will happen between the end of the church age of grace and the start of the Tribulation.

That is a mighty big IF S/N!:smilewinkgrin:

 

[HankD]

To go along with the underlying question of the O/P "when" of the rapture is also the question as to the "where".

That is - where will the saints go?

The word "rapture" is taken from the passage 1 Thessalonians 4

15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.​

"caught up" is one word in the Greek harpadzo
The word "rapture" is taken from the Latin Vulgate translation stem for harpazo : Rapt, Rapturo (or so I have read, my Latin is primitive).

It's the same word as used in

2 Corinthians 12

2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth such an one caught up to the third heaven.
3 And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth​

4 How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.

Caught up in the clouds in the air... but where to after that?
most dispensationalists say heaven which seems likely but I don't think it is a water tight proposition.

Matthew 13:30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.​

Wherever "my barn" is located. It is a term concerning a temporary structure. A structure built in the field (probably during the harvest) which protected the grain from the storms, wind and critters.

Also the tares are gathered first (but are left in the field "to be burned").


HankD

 

[OldRegular]

Matthew 13:30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.​

Wherever "my barn" is located. It is a term concerning a temporary structure. A structure built in the field (probably during the harvest) which protected the grain from the storms, wind and critters.

Also the tares are gathered first (but are left in the field "to be burned").


HankD

That reminds me of the last half of Revelation 20! The White Throne Judgment, the Saints in the New Heavens and New Earth with God, Satan and his cast into the Lake of Fire!

 

[HankD]

That reminds me of the last half of Revelation 20! The White Throne Judgment, the Saints in the New Heavens and New Earth with God, Satan and his cast into the Lake of Fire!

Yes OR, it's my conviction that we can't know how to connect all the second coming scriptures until after the fact.

I think perhaps God wants to keep us guessing although there are many who believe they have it all figured out.

There are clues along the way.

It's like putting together a 1,000 piece puzzle.

HankD