When God created

[Ernie Brazee]

The fact that many people come here is the very reason we must proclaim the truth and expose thos who claim to be Baptist, but deny the truth of God's word JV is doing that very thing! Denying god's precious truth for man. God loved us enough to give us His Word...in Christ and the written Word. Think about it, God didn't leave us at the mercy of the scholars but gave us His written Word that we might know Him.

The problem in Christ's day was scholarss who changed the truth of God's Word into a lie. That is why today we have a Book we can study and know God, it is the Bilbe and Holy Spirit who instructs us not "Bible Scholar" who appointed these men? From where do they obtain their authority? If the Bible says it that settles it, if you can't understand it then maybe you just need to get aquainted with the Liveing Word.

The Bible is a closed book to the lost and a precious revelation of god to the saved.

Ernie

 

[Rev. Joshua]

Thanks Don, I missed Ernie's post.

Ernie, if it weren't for the diligent work of scholars, you wouldn't have an English translation to read in the first place.

As to I Cor 15:45, it's an illustration, not a biology lesson. I think it's a beautiful way to explain how our imperfect, physical humanity is made spiritually whole by the presence of Jesus.

Regarding original sin, no I don't believe in a single event that "brought sin into the world." Baptist preacher Carlyle Marney, when asked (during a discussion of geology and archaeology) where he thought the Garden of Eden had been located answered by saying (and I'm paraphrasing), "My grandmother's kitchen in Kingston, TN where I used to steal cookies from the cookie jar."

The creation accounts in Genesis use narrative and myth to describe our relationship to God. Without Christ, we are innately drawn to rebellion, excess, and sin. The stories in Genesis do not have to be historical to be true.

Joshua

[ October 24, 2001: Message edited by: Rev. Joshua Villines ]

 

[Rev. Joshua]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ernie Brazee:
The problem in Christ's day was scholarss who changed the truth of God's Word into a lie. That is why today we have a Book we can study and know God, it is the Bilbe and Holy Spirit who instructs us not "Bible Scholar" who appointed these men? From where do they obtain their authority? If the Bible says it that settles it, if you can't understand it then maybe you just need to get aquainted with the Liveing Word.
Ernie<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ernie, one of the major problems in Christ's day was the fundamentalist legalism of religious leaders called Pharisees. As Jesus constantly reminded them, their strict, literal interpretation of the law served neither people nor God.

Joshua

 

[John Wells]

rhoneycutt,

If I were mistreating JV I would have said he is repulsive. Instead I said his views are repulsive. They are and always will be. Oh, and one very important JV "witness" that I left off, that is relevant to this discussion is:

4) Bible is the infallible, inspired Word of God

The Bible gives overwhelming evidence as to why Scripture must be always our sole authority for faith. The Word of God is pure, perfect, inerrant, infallible, living, truth, light, holy, eternal, and forever settled in heaven. It illuminates, cleanses, saves, frees, guides, converts, heals, quickens, judges, and sanctifies. It also brings conviction, gives knowledge, gives wisdom, produces faith, refutes error, searches the heart, equips for every good work, and is used as a weapon.

Ernie hit a key point: lack of faith in God's Word strongly suggests an unsurrended heart. Add my prayers to his for JV.

 

[Rev. Joshua]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ernie Brazee:
If the Bible says it that settles it, <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well that settles the Lilith issue. Surely Isaiah would not have mentioned her if she didn't exist.

Joshua

 

[rhoneycutt]

John,
The infallible, inspired word of God mentions Lilith. Do you honestly want to engage in a discussion about innerancy?

[ October 24, 2001: Message edited by: rhoneycutt ]

 

[John Wells]

JV said, "one of the major problems in Christ's day was the fundamentalist legalism of religious leaders called Pharisees. As Jesus constantly reminded them, their strict, literal interpretation of the law served neither people nor God."

I find it an infinate gap to compare the criticism Jesus had with the Pharisee's man-made legalistic extra-biblical laws with your denial of God's heterosexual created purpose and the sanctity of human life.

 

[donnA]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> Your continued blatant blasting of Joshua is repulsive. Please stop. He has never said he doesnt believe the Bible <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

He just said he did not believe the creation story, that it was barrowed, and is not true.

To me thats unbelief in the bible, it' all of none when it comes to believeing the bible.

[ October 24, 2001: Message edited by: katie ]

 

[Ernie Brazee]

Ha! You treat my post like post like you handle the Bible, take a piece out of context.

I mentioned nothing about a Lilith? Where did you find her? Isaiah didn't mention her.

Iaiah 34:14The wild beasts of the desert shall also meet with the wild beasts of the island, and the satyr shall cry to his fellow; the screech owl also shall rest there, and find for herself a place of rest.

Hmm, I stand by what I said if it is in the Book that settles it. No Lilith. Of course that makes a case for the perversions adding to the Word.


<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Rev. Joshua Villines:


Well that settles the Lilith issue. Surely Isaiah would not have mentioned her if she didn't exist.

Joshua<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

 

[rhoneycutt]

Katie
Mythical Truth -vs- Factual Truth.
The Bible IMO is not a book of Facts it is a book of Truths.
I believe the Bible, all of it. I do not think that Gen. 1-11 is factual.

 

[rhoneycutt]

Ernie
For Petes sake read the thread. Its in the Hebrew, its also in the NRSV.

 

[donnA]

aspinks
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Much of this conflict could have been avoided if you had posted a more specific request. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Hey, it's my post.Get over it.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>I don't want any opinions that are based on information not contained in or derived from one of my approved translations. Please do not post any responses that might upset my tidy, circular logic.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

What I want are biblical responses to a biblical question. If you or anyone else would rather believe secular junk that countedicts scripture, then fine go ahead, but where the bible speaks I'll take the bible. God does not lie.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>As for the existence and fate of Lilith, obviously God wouldn't create something, then decide to destroy it. (Oh, except for that little flood incident...) <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Then before sin entered the world(that little flood incident was about sin), God created a different woman for Adam, and then decided there was something wrong with her, got rid of her, and made new woman. So God's creation was never perfect, and it has nothing to do with sin.

Whatever happened to 2 Timothy 3:16 16All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

ALL scripture. Once again I'll take the word of God.

 

[donnA]

rhoneycutt
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>The Bible IMO is not a book of Facts it is a book of Truths.
I believe the Bible, all of it. I do not think that Gen. 1-11 is factual <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Facts are either true or they aren't. Then God lied, if your view is correct.

How can anyone claim to believe the bible and believe parts of it are not true.

 

[John Wells]

Amen Katie, preach on!

 

[John Wells]

rhoneycutt said, "I believe the Bible, all of it. I do not think that Gen. 1-11 is factual."

ROFLOL

I rest my case on the liberal biblical view!

 

[rhoneycutt]

Katie
Please reread my post. I believe the Bible is true!! The Bible is not necessarily completely factual.
Russell

John,
When you get off the floor and stop laughing please respond to earlier question regarding your inclusion of certain versions and exclusion of others.
Thanks
Russell

[ October 24, 2001: Message edited by: rhoneycutt ]

 

[swaimj]

Joshua, I wanted to respond to some of your quotes.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>
As to I Cor 15:45, it's an illustration, not a biology lesson. I think it's a beautiful way to explain how our imperfect, physical humanity is made spiritually whole by the presence of Jesus.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Joshua, I Cor 15:45 isn't really an illustration. It is an analogy comparing Adam and Jesus. Look at how Paul describes Adam and Jesus in verses 45-49. He calls Adam a "living being" and Jesus "a life-giving spirit", he says Adam was "of the dust of the earth" but Jesus was "from heaven". Your view raises frightening possibilities for the Christian. If Adam is not a literal person who was a living being made from dust, then how can we say that Jesus can literally give us life and that he literally came from heaven as he claimed? Or perhaps you don't say that.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>
Regarding original sin, no I don't believe in a single event that "brought sin into the world." <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You are in stark disagreement with Paul who said "For as by one man sin entered the world and so death by sin, so that death came upon all men for that all have sinned". Paul claimed that his teaching came directly from Jesus Christ: "I want you to know that the gospel I preached is not something that man made up. I did not receive it from any man, nor was I taught it; rather, I received it by revelation from Jesus Christ." Galatians 1:11-12. Joshua, you claim to know what you know because you learned it at seminary as well as from that notorius cookie thief, Carlyle Marney! Wise and discerning BB readers and posters, beware!!!

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>
The creation accounts in Genesis use narrative and myth to describe our relationship to God.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

In Mark 10:3-8, Jesus answers a question from the Pharisees about divorce. In doing so, he refers to Moses and what Moses commanded in Dueteronomy and he quotes from Genesis 1:27; 5:2; and 2:24. He seems to think these are actual people. He bases his own teaching on what they said. If its good enough for Jesus, its good enough for me, Joshua.

 

[donnA]

Thanks JohnWells

I did some searching and came up with this

Strong's

H3917
From H3915; a night spectre:—screech owl. And in the NRSV. And apparently no on else believes this was a woman, who was created by God before Eve.

And since my pastor also went to seminary(someone said seminaries teach this, I assume you mean Baptist), I am also going to ask him if it was taught where he went. And since there is seminary here(80 miles) I am going to try to email them, or write if I have to althought I know that will take longer. I'm just going to find out what seminaries are really teaching about Adam and Eve and whether or not God lies.

[ October 24, 2001: Message edited by: katie ]

 

[donnA]

rhoneycutt
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>I believe the Bible is true!! The Bible is not necessarily completely factual.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

This makes no sence, it is counterdictory.
How can it be true that Eve was the first woman, and not factual at the same time.

 

[aspinks]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by katie:
rhoneycutt


This makes no sence, it is counterdictory.
How can it be true that Eve was the first woman, and not factual at the same time.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

One communication problem we are having here is that not everyone is agreed on the meanings of words like "true," "factual," and "historical" in the context of this discussion. Some folks understand how a story can be "true" even if it didn't actually happen, others do not. Perhaps we should be using the noun "truth" instead of the adjective "true." Would it make more sense that way?null