When is a person SAVED?

In fact, the contributions of God the Father,
God the Son (AKA: Jesus), and God the Holy
Spirit is so great, that the contributions
of your faith, (though it has to be there),
can be counted as zero. Jesus does the
saving.

Jesus does the (if you are saved already)
past justification salvation.
Jesus does the present scantification salvation.
Jesus will do the future glorification salvation.

BTW, it would be nice if you would
cooperate with Jesus during the
scantification salvation PROCESS.
Daily confession of daily sins would.
Remember "scantification" is cleaning up.
And though i take a physical bath everyday,
somebody keeps sweating in my armpits,
so i have to take a bath the next day also.

 

When is a person saved?

If I had to give a concise answer, I would say the moment they are born again and have His Holy Spirit inside and endure to the end and obey Him.

 

Dr Bob, are you now ready for some longer answers? If so:-

The distinction between salvation and sanctification has been the subject of a great deal of writing and preaching, especially by evangelicals, and I don’t really want to add a great deal to what has already been said here. Broadly speaking, most evangelicals would draw a clear-cut line between salvation, which they would see as being a once-and-for-all event occurring when an individual repents and gives his/her life to Christ, and sanctification, which is an ongoing work of the Holy Spirit within that individual beginning at the point of salvation and working out the consequences of salvation within this/her life. Putting it simply, whilst salvation is a crisis, sanctification is a process.

I think it is fair to say that, in contrast, the interpretation of the more traditional churches, such as the Catholic and Orthodox churches, appealing more perhaps to Phil 2:12, is to blur the difference between the two terms, and also to down-play to a degree the role of the individual in both whilst emphasising the agency of the Church (the Holy Spirit is seen more as acting in the Church collectively, through for example the hierarchy of the Church). Salvation and sanctification are more interwoven, and sanctification is seen more as a means of effecting salvation rather than as a consequence of it (see for example the notion of purgatory and, perhaps also, suffering as an agency of sanctification).

To a degree, I find both approaches to salvation and sanctification inadequate. Whilst agreeing with the general principle that salvation is a once-and-for-all occurrence (and thus disagreeing with the Catholic view), I take issue with it necessarily being a crisis event; I know many people for whom conversion was far more of a process, and perhaps evangelical soteriology needs to recognise this and be couched more in terms of individuals making a series of steps towards Christ rather than just one great leap. As an example, I understand that apparently Billy Graham can put his finger on the exact moment when he came to faith (crisis) but his wife cannot and her experience is better described as a journey to faith (process). Phil 2:12 is however a verse that cannot simply be ignored. It could be, adopting an exegetical approach, that Paul is admonishing the Philippians for taking their salvation lightly. It can also be interpreted as the results of salvation working themselves out through sanctification, but this does not explain the use of the words “fear and trembling”. Personally, I do not believe that Paul is here warning the church against forfeiting their salvation; he is perhaps reminding them just what they have been saved from and also heightening their awareness of the sheer wrongfulness of sin, something that maybe we Western Christians need to remember as well.

Sanctification also is a term that can cover a multitude of sins (if you’ll pardon the double entendre). The very word itself has connotations of holiness, which is one of God’s defining attributes, so one way of looking at it is to regard sanctification as being the process by which we are made more like God (cp Rom 12:1-2). Clearly, therefore, on one level this is a life-long process; as obvious evidence of this I know of no Christian who does not sin (even those who have been baptised into Jesus’ death and resurrection) and who is therefore already perfect ‘on the ground’, as it were, and accordingly we all have some ongoing business with God that we need to attend to in this area (some, like me, more than others!). On the other hand, Paul also talks in terms of sanctification having already occurred in 1 Cor 1:2. Applying exegetical principles to this passage, we need to ask ourselves whether Paul was correcting an imbalance within the Corinthian church here, as he sometimes did with his churches elsewhere. For example, he is keen to stress grace to the Colossians and Galatians, who were still bound up by the Law to a large extent, but is by contrast harsh with the Corinthians’ licentiousness. It seems unlikely, given the Corinthians’ general arrogance in their spiritual gifts etc, that Paul is trying to reassure them that all is well between them and God; in fact, if there is any corrective soteriological concept which is addressed to this church’s over-confidence it is the idea of beholding God “as through a glass darkly” (1 Cor 13:12 and 2 Cor 3:15-18). I think therefore we need to take what Paul is saying here at face value; that there is a level on which sanctification is already accomplished – having been declared righteous, God regards us as being holy already and treats us accordingly. (Elsewhere, Paul does seek to correct the possible attitudinal problems arising from this way of thinking (Rom 6:1-2)).

I would prefer accordingly to see a fine tuning of the definitions of the terms salvation and sanctification. I see salvation (and sanctification too, in the way set out in the above paragraph) as being accomplished by a combination of grace and faith, grace being a past act (the crucifixion and resultant forgiveness) with continuing consequences, and faith being a response-decision to that (whether taken instantly or over a number a graduated steps). The life-long ongoing process resulting from that I see more in terms of developing and deepening our relationship with God which flows from our salvation and in that way, God being Love, we are fitted for heaven; we try not to sin, not so much because it is wrong, but because it wounds God – love, not Law, should be the motivating factor.


Yours in Christ

Matt

 

Let us see what the Bible has to say.

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

We are saved by God's amazing grace through faith, and that not of ourselves, we can not work to get salvation. Why? Because it is a gift of God.

How do you receive this gift? That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. (Romans 10:9)

 

A-Admit that they are a sinner.
B-Believe that Jesus died on the cross to save them
C-Confess that Jesus is Lord

 

When I was born the first time, it took only a moment, for before that moment I wasn't born and after that moment I was born. When I got married, it took only a moment, for one moment I wasn't married and the next moment I was. When I was chosen to become a member of my wrestling team in school, it took only a moment, for one moment I was not a member of the team and the next moment I was. When I graduated from school, it took only a moment, for one moment I wasn't a graduate and the next moment I was. I realize someone could say that these are all processes but that would be totally missing the point. In spiritual salvation there is a process of the Holy Spirit convicting someone of their sin and need of salvation but, there is a moment when your are not saved and the next moment you are.

I didn't need to fully grow up before I could say I was born. I didn't need to become a good husband before I could say I was married. I didn't need to become No.1 in the state in wrestling before I could say I was on the team. I didn't have to have a fabulous job before I could say I was a graduate. I do not need to be a fully mature Christian (or dead) before I can say I am saved.

I Cor 1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

II Cor 2:15 For we are unto God a sweet savour of Christ, in them that are saved

II tim 1:9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

Titus 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us,

The moment I accepted God's calling, the moment I accepted Christ as my Lord and Savior, the moment God's Holy Spirit took up residence in me (the same moment) I became SAVED. One moment I wasn't saved and the next moment I was. I still have a long way to go to become the mature Christian I ought to be but I was nonetheless born.

 

I heard this analogy once...

A man who's boat has sunk is floating helplessly in the sea... Given time he will die.

Suddenly a helicopter appears and throws him a lifeline. He grabs the lifeline and ties it tightly to himself. At that moment of time, he can say to himself "I'm saved!"

Gradually, the people on board the helicopter begin to pull him up towards the helicopter. As he is being pulled up, he can say to himself "I am being saved!"

Finally when he is on board the helicopter, and brought safely to land, He can say to himself "I'm saved!"

For me, salvation is like that... The moment we accept Jesus into our lives and confess him as lord, God has put his lifeline around us... indeed we are saved. Nothing short of our own wilful removal of that lifeline will take that salvation from us.

As we continue life's journey and continue to be brought to the point where God wants us to be, we are being saved.

And as when the day comes when we finally die and go home to heaven... then we can say with finality, I'm saved!

 

If you drown, then you weren't, at any point, saved. You just mistakenly THOUGHT you were saved. You just mistakenly CALLED yourself saved, but, you weren't saved were you? No, because you drowned. It really doesn't matter whose fault it is, your fault, my fault, God's fault, or nobody's fault, the point is you drowned and at no point were you saved from drowning..

 

The problem, really, is that the word salvation is used in scripture in several different ways. There are places where it is used as a synonym for justified, and in the sense that we are justified (counted as righteous) the moment we believe, then we are saved the moment we believe.

But that is not the only way scripture uses the word "salvation", and if that is the only way we think of it, then we may miss part of the glorious truth about God's redemption through Christ.

Salvation is also (and probably more often) used in a broader sense than to refer merely to justification. It is used as well to refer to our deliverance from every effect that the fall had upon our person. Used in that sense--our salvation from every effect of sin--we are not completely saved until that last day, when we receive our uncorrupted glorified bodies.

We lost so much in Adam: we were counted as sinners; we became sinner; our bodies became corrupt and mortal. All this--and more--is restored to us in our salvation in Christ: we are counted as righteous (justified); we are made more and more righteous (sanctification); and finally we become completely righteous and we receive incorruptible, immortal bodies (glorification).

Many of the salvation terms in the Bible are used like this. In a sense we have them immediately upon faith, and in another sense, we don't fully have them until we are glorified. In one sense we were redeemed in Christ's death on the cross, in another sense we were redeemed when we believed, and yet, we are not fully redeemed until we recieve our redeemed bodies--until we receive every last personal benefit purchased for us on the cross.

Adoption is like that, too. We become sons and daughters when we recieve the Spirit (Roman 8:14), and yet the Spirit is in some way only the firstfruits of our full and final adoption when we receive the redemption of our bodies (8:23). The Spirit being the firstfruits of our adoption means that He is a taste of what is to come, and a guarantee of what is to come; so there is certainty of the process being completed once the firstfruits are received, but it would be a mistake to consider the firstfruits to be the whole shebang.

Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! In his great mercy he has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, and into an inheritance that can never perish spoil or fade--kept in heaven for you. Through faith you are shielded by God's power until the coming of the salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time. (1 Peter 1:3-5)

Our new birth ushers us into our inheritance. It brings us into a state of undying confidence in what will come for us. And yet the full and final revelation our salvation is not yet ours. It is kept for us, and we are shielded by God's power until we recieve it.

[ December 09, 2003, 01:22 PM: Message edited by: russell55 ]

 

AllenLim,

Excellent and completely Biblical analogy.

In the love of Christ,
Tim