When is dancing wrong?

Excellent! I've never seen a finer defense of dancing, and such logic cannot be argued with.

Of course, we're still waiting for someone to present some evidence proving that he knows what the good dancing in the Bible looked like, and how it resembles the dancing he approves of today.

:sleep:

 

In my experience with dancing, there was always liquor involved. The bad instances of dancing in the Bible certainly involved 'being drunk with wine'.

In my town, the only places to dance are bars. The liquor combined with the lust (from the sensual dancing) cannot lead to anything Godly, IMHO.

The girls wear very immodest clothing to the dances and they dance to incite lust. Why do you think there are so many mirrors? They are vain and want to make sure they are making the right moves to attract the opposite sex. To me, it looks like they are performing a sexual act standing up.

Ever seen an 'after Prom' party? Most of the guests end up at a house (with no supervision), in a bedroom, or the backseat of a car...

BTW, none of my children went to a Prom (or any other dance).

I always taught my children - when faced with temptation - RUN!

And also, IF they dated (I won't go into my rules for dating) they should always put a Bible in the seat between them and their date. That way, for the date to get to them, they have to crawl over Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John!

I see nothing wrong with dancing in the privacy of your own home, with your spouse. If anything arises, it will be 'loveful' feelings, not 'lustful' feelings.

 

All right John, I admit it. I was extremely tired when I posted my reply last and also very angry about something in my "real" life. I did cross the quote line by making it look as though you believe ALL forms of dancing is sin or could lead to sin, when in actuality you only seem to be arguing that dancing that involves touching of unmarrieds, sensuality or idol worship is actual sin.

However, today is a new day!

Just so we are clear on the issue where do you draw the line? Let's take the three types of dancing sin above individually:

touching by unmarrieds: does this include hand holding? What about a hand/waist combination? What about linked arms? What about a man lifting his partner?

IF it does you have just crossed off the list square dancing, most waltzes, ballet and even figure skating.

Sensuality: This one crosses my own line as sensuality simply encites lust and that is the reason for it! However, my definition of sensous may be different from your own. To me it means the drawing of attention to the more "reproductive" regions of the body. It does not include twirling, spinning, jumping up and down, headbanging(which I don't recommend for other reasons), leaping or even Elvis' hip swirl. It does include almost everything that could be considered "hip hop".

Idol worship: We'll let this one go since I think everyone agrees that this is sin. (but I have a question: If Paul didn't think it was idol worship to eat meat sacrificed to idols why would think that dancing a dance who's origens were idol worship is a sin if you are not using it to actually worship that idol?)

Really? Why then do you practice the martial arts? Why are sports like basketball and baseball accepted activities for a Christian? Why do Christian's engage in anything except work and worship if "giving glory to God" is always to be our focus. If we can be/show our Christianity at these activities, why is it we aren't able to show our Christianity while dancing?

Actually, I can't pronounce antinomianism, much less have an idea of what it means. (Going to look it up) But:

I am in no way saying that it is okay for a Christian to sin. What I'm trying to figure out is why a few activities have been pulled out as special. Dancing, smoking, pants wearing women, drinking, playing cards, and gambling are all things that have not been spelled out as wrong in the Bible but have gained great attention as being sin.

I'm not done yet. I posted because our power is trying to blink and I don't want to lose everything. I'll finish with another post.

 

Dance with your wife in your home.This way it will be your business and you will be staying away from all appearances of evil since some consider any form of dancing sinful.:tongue3:

 

Here's the rest:

The real problem I see with discussions such as this one is that lines drawn in the sand by someone other than God, discourage Christian maturity.

For example, you say that I'm familiar with a different type of Fundamentalism than you practice. That may be, but like you when I was a child I was not allowed to participate in ANY type of dancing including those folk dances that your parents refused to allow you to participate in. When I asked why, my parents couldn't give me a reason and simply accused me of disrespect and told me that participating in dancing was a sin that would send me to hell. I got in big trouble once for swaying to the music that was playing on the radio.

Your grandfather's writings were a mainstay in our house. He was a smart man, you think my parents would have learned something from him, but to this day they can only tell me that dancing is sin (they backed off the sending you to hell stuff), but they still can't tell me why. This is a lack of maturity. Here in the south I see it a lot. Folks simply listen to what they were taught without ever opening thier Bible to make sure they were taught correctly.

The whole point of this ramble is this: If a person can't tell WHY it's a sin, then they don't need to speak with authority that it is a sin.

 

I give Sue a thumbs up for that letter :thumbs:

(I think IAMBLESSED is sue...)

I states somewhere in the bible when faced with lustful temptaion we are to run. When I have more time, I will look for it. Makes perfect sense.

 

The Bible does teach us to flee from temptation. However we must realize that what is tempting to yourself, may not be temptin to another. A doctor will not be tempted in a room full of naked people, where most others might. An alcoholic would face more temtation in a bar than another person. Each person is responsible to God for their own thoughts and actions. He alone sees our heart. What is sin for one, may not be sin for another.

To condem an action on the basis of it leading to sin holds another problem. Any of our actions can lead to sin, even those required for life. We must eat, but to over-eat is sinful. Even prayer can be sinful, if not done with proper motivation. We are in the world. We cannot be salt to the world when we are always shieldind ourselves from it. We are in a spiritual battle and must stay focused on Him. As we mature as Christian, and discipline our minds to always look to Him, those temtations will dwindle. This constant focus and evaluation will let you know when the time comes to flee. As a father of 3 grown daughters hanging around a summer swimming pool is no big deal now, but as a 16 year old it was definitely a temptation to get away from.

1 Cor 8:1-3
We know that we all possess knowledge. Knowledge puffs up, but love builds up. 2 The man who thinks he knows something does not yet know as he ought to know. 3 But the man who loves God is known by God.
(from New International Version)

 

I agree with you that much of society condemns ALL violence wrongly, but aren’t you in effect lumping all social dancing together in basically the same way from a religious viewpoint? By that I mean can not one look upon a woman and not lust, (I mean the verse plainly says “to lust”), or dance with a woman and not lust just as easily as one can be by nature a fighter and not choose to fight? By the nature in which God designed us we are sexual beings and certainly sex is one of Satan’s best demolition tools as is violence, but the righteous should have control over both, I would think.

I can dance with a woman without worrying about a problem of lust arising with as much confidence as I can confront a bully without allowing the thought about wanting to hurt him.

I knew you would be experienced in kata is why I brought it up because I don’t think you able to get around comparisons of temptation, confidence, discipline with dance being compared between martial arts and social dance. (and I guess I got nothing better to do)

You can block a cheap shot and strike back viciously or reply with a firm verbal warning; the later takes more secular confidence, but also more godly righteousness which is the stronger wisdom. Take “confidence” being familiar with martial arts is going to give you a field of confidence when confronted with a physical confrontation, but it is the heart that is going to keep you from temptation when that confrontation begins. I know for a fact that a martial artist’s confidence does not necessarily mean there will be less conflict in their life, that confidence is pretty much insignificant in their behavior if confronted which can be shown by example say if someone would walk into a martial arts studio and criticize the style, ridicule the instructors conditioning, while telling them what would happen to them if they were to meet up with the wrong person with a quick poke in the chest. What you will get is a mixed batch of reactions, not according to their skill level but according to their disposition, you will get some that will remain calm, some that will start shaking, and some that will be angry with rapid eye movement looking to angrily retaliate.

No offense, but I consider that nonsense! If one can not control lustful thoughts he already has a problem, most often I would suggest a serious lack of confidence in controlling temptation to abide in pure thought. A sheltered man having less experience in disipline will be weaker and not have much of a chance for a good outcome when confronting human nature whether it be violence or sexuality. The discipline as always comes from the heart. Just because I can deliver a devastating 3 inch punch doesn’t mean I am going to abuse it.

Hope supper was good!

At 17 I seriously hurt a guy that was intimidating to me for forcefully pushing me out of a snow-cone line at a baseball game, BECAUSE I was not mature and good hearted enough to be in control of the situation by my emotions.

I agree that this is the norm and certainly not trying to put down martial arts, but I will still have to suggest that the same can be applied to the discipline of control in a social dance. Training and discipline will tell me not to let my mind go sinful on me, I mean come on shouldn’t a Christian be able to keep his mind out of the gutter in a social dance? Tell a joke, talk about the kids, make fun of the other people dancing LOL, if you feel tempted deal with it.

 

And just where would you find all these dances to attend if not in a bar?

 

Personally, I don’t like bars either. To answer your question at many social gatherings such as weddings, class reunions, in our case my wife is business executive and the company has black tie events renting a dance hall with catering a band and the like at least once a year. I’ve even attended a Christmas dance at a church, yep, still laugh about a buddy there putting on an Indian head dress and dancing to YMCA. Innocent fun.

 

I used to have an exercise video with YMCA on it and I couldn't do that dance without a headdress! :laugh:

 

I couldn't agree more.:thumbsup:
Too often "dancing" is just another word for exhibitionism.

 

If any of you ever seen me dance this thread would have its obvious answer.:smilewinkgrin:

Bro Tony

 

1 Corinthians 7:1

Paul had spoken in chapter 6 on the dangers of sexuality outside of marriage. Then he turned to the duty of sexuality within marriage. Probably abandonment of marital duties on the part of some in Corinth had contributed to the immorality he had just described.
7:1. The phrase not to marry may be an overtranslation of the Greek phrase “not to touch a woman.” Paul probably intended it as a euphemism for sexual intercourse (cf. Gen. 20:6; Prov. 6:29). This too may have been a slogan for some in Corinth (cf. 1 Cor. 6:12-13) who argued that even those who were married should abstain from sexual intercourse. All that Paul said, however, was that celibacy was a good state and not to be depreciated.
Walvoord, J. F., Zuck, R. B., & Dallas Theological Seminary.

 

I practice martial arts as well, and have found an appreciation for dance and other physical artistic expressions. The physical fitness, body control, discipline in training, are the same. Since Jesus touched many woman physically, Paul had to have had another meaning.