When Seminary Labels Baptist Theology as Folk Theology

[kathleenmariekg]

How often is Baptist theology labeled as "folk theology" at "non denominational" and Ivy League seminaries?

Surviving and Thriving in Seminary by H. Daniel Zacharias and Benjamin K. Forrest

GET READY FOR DISCOMFORT
But now you are listening to professors discuss the same subjects in ways you’ve never heard before. It is jarring and often confusing. Students sometimes rebel, questioning the faith of their professors or wonder why they need to learn “all this new extraneous stuff.” If you are tempted to resist new ideas, remind yourself that wisdom and knowledge come from being exposed to and thinking through new ideas--not by refusing to listen or enter into dialogue.
...
Seminary will ask you to take a step back and look critically at what you believe--not because your professors want to destroy your beliefs, but because they want you to think about whether they are the best way to understand the world, and whether they truly are in line with the Scriptures and not just a folk theology.1

Who Needs Theology?: An Invitation to the Study of God by Grenz, Stanley J.Olson, Roger E.

FOLK THEOLOGY
Theologies, then, lie along a spectrum of reflection. At one extreme end is what we will call “folk theology,” while at the other end lies its opposite, “academic theology.” Between these lie various levels of theology—some less and some more reflective in their approaches to understanding Christian faith. Closer to the center of the spectrum than folk theology is lay theology, and closer yet is ministerial theology. Moving on toward the other end of the spectrum we find professional theology, and finally—at the opposite extremity from folk theology—lies academic theology:
...
What is folk theology? We will use the term to describe unreflective believing based on blind faith in a tradition of some kind. We are not using this label to criticize the simple faith of saints of God who have never been tutored in formal theology. We know some genuine saints who have lived out the Christian life in profound ways yet are not very good at articulating or critically reflecting on their beliefs. Rather, we use the term folk theology to refer to a kind of theology that rejects critical reflection and enthusiastically embraces simplistic acceptance of an informal tradition of beliefs and practices composed mainly of clichés and legends.
Folk theology is found in every denomination and very commonly among people who consider themselves Christians (or at least believers in God) but have no denominational or church affiliation. For the most part, folk theology completely rejects reflection in the sphere of religion. Deep spiritual piety and intellectual reflection are considered antithetical to one another within folk theology.
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It stunts growth and blunts the influence of Christianity in the world. Further, it is often difficult to distinguish Christian folk theology from the canned answers and pasted smiles that cultists display on the doorstep as they peddle their “new revelations” from door to door.
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Folk theology, then, is unreflective belief that revels in subjective feelings brought on by slogans or legends and that resists examination. Generally speaking, it is quite comfortable with inner inconsistency and unquestioning belief in sensational stories and pithy clichés, which are the primary media for its communication.
...
we do acknowledge that lay, ministerial and professional theologians can learn about the yearnings of people’s hearts from studying it. The legends and clichés on which folk theology thrives reveal the spiritual needs, questions and desires of the masses. These should not be ignored, but rather drawn upon to show the resources of reflective faith for meeting and answering them.

 

[JonC]

Sounds like the article is coming from the perspective that theology belongs properly to the seminary (acedemia) rather than the Church (the people of God).

The definition of folk (or lay) theology as "unreflective belief that revels in subjective feelings brought on by slogans or legends and that resists examination" reflects, IMHO, an amount of ignorance that reduces theology to a pure intellectual exercise.

 

[kathleenmariekg]

Sounds like the article is coming from the perspective that theology belongs properly to the seminary (acedemia) rather than the Church (the people of God).

The definition of folk (or lay) theology as "unreflective belief that revels in subjective feelings brought on by slogans or legends and that resists examination" reflects, IMHO, an amount of ignorance that reduces theology to a pure intellectual exercise.

That you for that. I read this and am struggling to identify what concerns me. There is this trend that I am being exposed to that I cannot blindly embrace despite the people preaching it having so much more knowledge and academic training than me.

Jesus talked about light burdens and child-like faith and ... I don't know.

I am not making any sense. Thanks!

 

[RighteousnessTemperance&]

Unfortunately, there is a spirit of condescension and indoctrination to be found across the spectrum. It is not inherent with the "level" of theology, but rather reflects the spiritual maturity and insight of the teacher, the believer, or the unbeliever. Paul prefaces teaching "about food sacrificed to idols" thus:

We know that “We all possess knowledge.” But knowledge puffs up while love builds up. Those who think they know something do not yet know as they ought to know. But whoever loves God is known by God. (1 Cor 8:1-3)​

 

[Deacon]

Surviving and Thriving in Seminary [Amazon Link]
by H. Daniel Zacharias and Benjamin K. Forrest

I've never heard Baptist Theology described as "folk theology".

As your post stated:

Folk theology is found in every denomination and very commonly among people who consider themselves Christians (or at least believers in God) but have no denominational or church affiliation. For the most part, folk theology completely rejects reflection in the sphere of religion. Deep spiritual piety and intellectual reflection are considered antithetical to one another within folk theology.

...and unreflective "folk theology" is common.
That's why the book was written, to warn those entering seminary that they will be required to think out their religious beliefs AND PERHAPS CHANGE THEIR MIND ABOUT SOME ALONG THE WAY.

Here are two sides of the spectrum:

(1) The children of mixed religious marriages and the children of the unreligious, the partially religious or those that are Christian-in-name-only, can be very confused about religion.
As a result they can be comfortable mixing various artifacts of the religion that their parents displayed.

(2) Pastors children are taught to obey their parents. As a results they obediently follow, without really critically examining, their own theology.

Is Baptist denomination more prone to folk theology than others?

Rob.

 

[rlvaughn]

The authors:
H. Daniel Zacharias
Benjamin K. Forrest

Seminary will ask you to take a step back and look critically at what you believe--not because your professors want to destroy your beliefs, but because they want you to think about whether they are the best way to understand the world, and whether they truly are in line with the Scriptures and not just a folk theology.

Probably according to which seminary one winds up at. Some professors want to destroy beliefs, and hopefully some only want you to examine them in such a way that you understand them.

 

[Ziggy]

What I would consider folk theology are cases where various elements are combined in an ahistorical manner, with some things simply made up to fit the scenario.

Example from Christmas : the Magi were actually kings; there were three of them; they were at the manger at the same time as the shepherds. Add to those at the manger the Little Drummer Boy, Ahmal, and even S. Claus, etc.

 

[Marooncat79]

A good seminary education involves teaching all views. A faithful education teaches the student how to disarm all that would attack the Gospel and God.

Ex: i learned Higher Criticism in seminary. I also learned how to leave it in a dust heap at the city dump

 

[AustinC]

The OP article quote doesn't bring up Baptists anywhere.

Upon reading the quote, I see the authors attempting to label various spectrums and seemingly saying that the middle is the best place to land.

They focus much on church tradition and story as "folk theology." In that light, I would see Roman Catholicism as squarely in the folk theology realm. Also, the appalachian independent churches who add snake charming to their faith. Indeed, there are a myriad of independent, preacher as ruler, churches who create a tradition that is not to be questioned by followers.
The opposite theology is the "Jesus Seminar" academia where Jesus deity is cast aside as a fantasy and the Bible is merely a collection of moral myths to be studied with no application necessary.
The author's never really share the middle ground. They essentially imply the middle is mainstream.
I'm not sure the article is very helpful other than to create subjective labels for the authors article.

 

[kathleenmariekg]

The OP article quote doesn't bring up Baptists anywhere.
.

I've never heard Baptist Theology described as "folk theology".
...
Is Baptist denomination more prone to folk theology than others?
Rob.

I agree that the OP book excerpts do not mention Baptist theology; I agree that the term "folk theology" is not one that most of us have heard applied to Baptist theology: I do think some practices and beliefs that are not rare in Baptist churches have been dismissed as inferior and on the opposite end of the spectrum to academic theology.

It is a powerful persuasive technique to create a vague and negative label with narrow rules that benefit the label-maker's agenda, and then apply that label widely to discredit and disempower any opposition to the label-makers agenda.

I read this and knew that I could be required to defend my beliefs against this concept, even if not this label. I believe this label creates a good thread title, and because we are a Baptist forum, most of us are most concerned with how this and other events and ideas apply to our own practices and beliefs.

Is the Old Scofield Bible seen as folk theology by some academics? I think Vernon McGee said that he was forbidden to bring his Old Scofield Bible to one of his colleges or seminaries.

Is that folk-to-academic scale a fair measuring tool to measure and critique all theologies?

 

[rlvaughn]

Surviving and Thriving in Seminary by H. Daniel Zacharias and Benjamin K. Forrest

Who Needs Theology?: An Invitation to the Study of God by Grenz, Stanley J.Olson, Roger E.

FOLK THEOLOGY
Theologies, then, lie along a spectrum of reflection. At one extreme end is what we will call “folk theology,” while at the other end lies its opposite, “academic theology.” Between these lie various levels of theology—some less and some more reflective in their approaches to understanding Christian faith. Closer to the center of the spectrum than folk theology is lay theology, and closer yet is ministerial theology. Moving on toward the other end of the spectrum we find professional theology, and finally—at the opposite extremity from folk theology—lies academic theology:

Is this part just Zacharias and Forrest quoting from Grenz and Olson? I could not find that using the "Look Inside" feature on Amazon, but it is quite limited. Thanks.

 

[kathleenmariekg]

Is this part just Zacharias and Forrest quoting from Grenz and Olson? I could not find that using the "Look Inside" feature on Amazon, but it is quite limited. Thanks.

No. Because of my sight disability, I have free access to the Grenz and Olson book. Everything after the title of the book is quoted directly from the Grenz and Olson book. When Zacharias and Forrest quoted the book, I became curious to read the book itself.

I have a lot of access to digital textbooks, books that might be used as supplements to textbooks in the classroom, and pop fiction. What I have the least access to is scholarly articles and reference books that are not likely to be assigned in a syllabus.

 

[RighteousnessTemperance&]

From review comments, the book doesn’t sound terrible. Here’s an excerpt from a rather long review by Pavlo Bakhmut. It refers to their spectrum.

Although everyone is engaged in theology, theological inquiries vary in type and quality. In its most basic form, theology can be good or bad. For Grenz and Olson, bad theology is unreflective and unwilling to learn. Good theology, on the other hand, is articulate and self-aware. It goes beyond blind recital and can situate itself within the body of knowledge and interpretation. In addition, good theology does not let intellectual rigour break the connection between theology and faith. In a more nuanced description, the authors present the variety of theologies along the spectrum, distinguishing between five types: (1) folk theology, (2) lay theology, (3) ministerial theology, (4) professional theology, and (5) academic theology (p. 16). Besides deriving their names from different types of practitioners, the types along the continuum can be said to encapsulate different degrees of interaction between faith and reason. Folk theology is pure blind faith and academic theology is sterile reason devoid of faith. The authors reject these two types as undesirable, while embracing the median types where the interplay between faith and reason is alive and vibrant.

Who Needs Theology?: An Invitation to the Study of God by Stanley J. Grenz​

 

[kathleenmariekg]

From review comments, the book doesn’t sound terrible. Here’s an excerpt from a rather long review by Pavlo Bakhmut. It refers to their spectrum.

Although everyone is engaged in theology, theological inquiries vary in type and quality. In its most basic form, theology can be good or bad. For Grenz and Olson, bad theology is unreflective and unwilling to learn. Good theology, on the other hand, is articulate and self-aware. It goes beyond blind recital and can situate itself within the body of knowledge and interpretation. In addition, good theology does not let intellectual rigour break the connection between theology and faith. In a more nuanced description, the authors present the variety of theologies along the spectrum, distinguishing between five types: (1) folk theology, (2) lay theology, (3) ministerial theology, (4) professional theology, and (5) academic theology (p. 16). Besides deriving their names from different types of practitioners, the types along the continuum can be said to encapsulate different degrees of interaction between faith and reason. Folk theology is pure blind faith and academic theology is sterile reason devoid of faith. The authors reject these two types as undesirable, while embracing the median types where the interplay between faith and reason is alive and vibrant.

Who Needs Theology?: An Invitation to the Study of God by Stanley J. Grenz​

It is interesting that Zacharias and Forrest only lift the term "folk theology" and use it out of the spectrum-context that warns just as strongly against a sterile academic theology.

I have watched videos of professors that are teaching against mainstream theologies of other denominations, and they mock other beliefs as unknowledgeable and illogical and pause and shake their heads and look frustrated with a lack of more words to reflect their feelings. I can see how quickly this term could become fashionable in attacks against the beliefs of other denominations.

I am currently viewing a "nondenominational" video course that is systematically attacking mainstream beliefs of other denominations, one by one. I am watching a variety of professors from a variety of Christian colleges use worldly techniques in their attacks against the beliefs of other Christians.

In secular colleges, I have seen the term plagiarism used to silence students without the access and skill to defend their beliefs by peppering every sentence with a citation that incudes a for-profit database that hosts a resource that holds that same belief. They are told they are breaking the law and that their paper is not just unsupported, but "illegal". And they are reminded that academic careers are ended by "illegal" activities. Students learn quickly to create thesis that support the most readily available resources, even if they disagree with them.

Not all denominations are equally represented in academia in the 2020's. If students must support their beliefs with citations from peer reviewed articles that are less than 5 years old, or face accusations of arguing a "folk theology" from an "outdated" or "devotional" resource, they can be silenced, no matter how much access and skill they have to mine the for-profit databases.

 

[RighteousnessTemperance&]

It is interesting that Zacharias and Forrest only lift the term "folk theology" and use it out of the spectrum-context that warns just as strongly against a sterile academic theology.

I have watched videos of professors that are teaching against mainstream theologies of other denominations, and they mock other beliefs as unknowledgeable and illogical and pause and shake their heads and look frustrated with a lack of more words to reflect their feelings. I can see how quickly this term could become fashionable in attacks against the beliefs of other denominations.

I am currently viewing a "nondenominational" video course that is systematically attacking mainstream beliefs of other denominations, one by one. I am watching a variety of professors from a variety of Christian colleges use worldly techniques in their attacks against the beliefs of other Christians.

In secular colleges, I have seen the term plagiarism used to silence students without the access and skill to defend their beliefs by peppering every sentence with a citation that incudes a for-profit database that hosts a resource that holds that same belief. They are told they are breaking the law and that their paper is not just unsupported, but "illegal". And they are reminded that academic careers are ended by "illegal" activities. Students learn quickly to create thesis that support the most readily available resources, even if they disagree with them.

Not all denominations are equally represented in academia in the 2020's. If students must support their beliefs with citations from peer reviewed articles that are less than 5 years old, or face accusations of arguing a "folk theology" from an "outdated" or "devotional" resource, they can be silenced, no matter how much access and skill they have to mine the for-profit databases.

There are certainly some toxic atmospheres around. Don’t subject yourself unnecessarily. Your own spiritual health is important.

That five-year rule sounds very suspect for theology. My own is rather basic, with which I can allow wide latitude, but tend to give certain adherents grief of their own making. Not where I need a grade, mind you.

 

[Yeshua1]

That you for that. I read this and am struggling to identify what concerns me. There is this trend that I am being exposed to that I cannot blindly embrace despite the people preaching it having so much more knowledge and academic training than me.

Jesus talked about light burdens and child-like faith and ... I don't know.

I am not making any sense. Thanks!

So called Academic theology has given to us the fruit of 3 isaiahs, 4 authors of Genesis, no miracles possible, etc!

 

[rlvaughn]

It is interesting that Zacharias and Forrest only lift the term "folk theology" and use it out of the spectrum-context that warns just as strongly against a sterile academic theology.

I noticed this also. After thinking about it, I decided it probably is because they don't think anyone just starting seminary would have academic theology -- that is usually a product of "too much" education. However, I wonder how many students entering seminary are going in with a folk theology level understanding? Might not just as many fit under the label that Grenz and Olson call lay theology?

 

[kathleenmariekg]

There are certainly some toxic atmospheres around. Don’t subject yourself unnecessarily. Your own spiritual health is important.

That five-year rule sounds very suspect for theology. My own is rather basic, with which I can allow wide latitude, but tend to give certain adherents grief of their own making. Not where I need a grade, mind you.

You all explained so much to me in the Luther Rice thread about academic writing rules. I do not agree with so many of them, but I am glad to know what the rules are and the reasoning behind them.
Luther Rice College: Matthew Henry is outdated, but Calvin is not??

I have read this article a few times now. I take this advice quite seriously.
The Importance of Being Earnest: Approaching Theological Study by Carl Trueman
BiblicalStudies.org.uk: The Importance of Being Earnest: Approaching Theological Study by Carl Trueman

I posted a thread about it, awhile back.
The Importance of Being Earnest: Approaching Theological Study

Too much academic study absolutely hurts my spiritual faith if I do not balance it with devotional study within my own faith.

 

[kathleenmariekg]

I noticed this also. After thinking about it, I decided it probably is because they don't think anyone just starting seminary would have academic theology -- that is usually a product of "too much" education. However, I wonder how many students entering seminary are going in with a folk theology level understanding? Might not just as many fit under the label that Grenz and Olson call lay theology?

It will matter which theologies the professors want to paint as "folk theologies". It is a powerful tool in the hands of a professor.

 

[RighteousnessTemperance&]

You all explained so much to me in the Luther Rice thread about academic writing rules. I do not agree with so many of them, but I am glad to know what the rules are and the reasoning behind them.
Luther Rice College: Matthew Henry is outdated, but Calvin is not??

I have read this article a few times now. I take this advice quite seriously.
The Importance of Being Earnest: Approaching Theological Study by Carl Trueman
BiblicalStudies.org.uk: The Importance of Being Earnest: Approaching Theological Study by Carl Trueman

I posted a thread about it, awhile back.
The Importance of Being Earnest: Approaching Theological Study

Too much academic study absolutely hurts my spiritual faith if I do not balance it with devotional study within my own faith.

Thanks for all the info and refs. I enjoy reading your posts, but don't mistake me for one of the theologically erudite. Like I said, my own is very basic (a bit folksy? ). I feel the Spirit being exorcised from the Word when dealing too directly with certain "schools of thought." My response is not always the best. So, I feel you here:

"Too much academic study absolutely hurts my spiritual faith if I do not balance it with devotional study within my own faith."