When Understanding the Cross

[Ben1445]

I have no idea why you think those of us who believe that by Christ's obedience, His blood shed for us, His death on a cross also think that we do not believe in a dying Savior. That is weird.

So what is the purpose of dying. You didn’t answer that.
Your view is what is perceivable as weird. A pointless death? At least no explanation of it was included.

No, sacrificing animals was not a payment for sins (Heb 10; 1 Sam 15:22; Hoz 6:6).

Matthew 12:7 is another key verse - But if you had known what this [a]means: ‘I desire compassion, rather than sacrifice,’ you would not have condemned the innocent".

What does God require? Sacrifice or obedience?

I would say your theory corrupts and minimizes not only the Old Testament sacrificial system but also the cross.

Where you see the Father as condemning the Righteous to death in order to justify the wicked, I see Christ completing a work to reconcile man to God, completely finished on the cross of Calvery.

Isaiah 53 shows what you don’t want to see. But not in the same way you say it.
Jesus gave Himself.
As with Abraham, the Father is there and as involved as the Son while not in the same capacity.

Where you view Christ as a penal substitute I view Christ as a second type of man (a second Adam).

None of the animal sacrifices were worth anything because clearly, from the time of the patriarchs,
Genesis 22:8
And Abraham said, My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering: so they went both of them together.

 

[JonC]

So what is the purpose of dying.

Since the children have flesh and blood, he too shared in their humanity so that by his death he might break the power of him who holds the power of death—that is, the devil.


We know that God did not forsake in terms of abandon or separate from Christ. Psalm 22 begins “My God, my god, why have You forsaken me? Far from my help are the words of my groaning. My God, I cry out by day, but You do not answer; and by night, but I have no rest”.

If you just take the first part of the verse (Psalm 22:1a) then you miss out on the way “forsaken” is being defined. Forsaken is referring to God not answering or delivering the cries for deliverance. But if you continue through the psalm you quickly realize that God is there, God has not abandoned him.

“For He has not despised nor scorned the suffering of the afflicted; nor has He hidden His face from him; But when he cried to Him for help, He heard” (Psalm 22:24)

For the Lord loves the just and will not forsake His faithful ones (Psalm 37:28). The eyes of the Lord are on the righteous, and His ears are attentive to their cry (Psalm 34:15). Be strong and courageous…He (God) will not leave you or forsake you (Deut 31:6).

 

[Salty]

Six hour warning
This thread will be closed no sooner than 0730 GMT 130 am (Thr) /130 pm (Wed)

 

[JonC]

Thread closed by request of OP