When Was Adam Saved

Is it presumed here to be not possible that Adam was lost and never saved?

 

Well, I guess I will toss my nickle in. BTW: I'm new and Hello :thumbs:

Rex77 properly used Rom 5:12 But we need to look at the whole counsil of God in this. Yes, Adam was 'created' without sin. (this also holds to Eve in case someone asks when did Eve get saved :tongue3: ) Adam fell by transgresing God's only law at the time (boy, I wish it was still that way!), which is sin. (sin = to fall short or miss the mark) Did he? You betcha! So we see Adam and Eve both sinned in the Garden. If you want it more specific I'll do so later.

Now let's look at how 'God' veiws sin.
1. Rom 3:23 states: "For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God."
2. Compound this with Rom 6:23 "For the wages of sin (singular) is death (spiritual) but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord[/I] My emphasis added in bold.
3. Rom 6:16 is a good definer concerning who our master is by who we obey, therefore meaning would hold to Adam as well. "Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom you obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousnes." (right standing with God) There are many others but you get (hopefully) the gist.

By scripture itself we see Adam (as we all agree) fell, but in that fall/sin a terrible price was paid.
Scripture states "ALL have sinned..." Adam falls into this catagory.
Scripture states "...the wages of Sin is death..." Not loss of fellowship. Fellowship is a benifit to our addoption.
Scripture states "... by one man sin entered...death by sin.

Since scripture states ALL have sinned, and sin is the defining measure that seperates us from God and due to this, He had to send us a savior to renew that lost relationship - Adam stands out as the first of ALL mankind to need Jesus as much as you or I. We also find in Gen 3:23-24 that God drove Adam and Eve out of the Garden and He drove them out. The Garden was place of perfect unity with God, and God Himself drove man from it. In light of scripture there is no way anyone can hold that Adam maintained any spiritual unity with our Heavenly Father while in sin. That (sin) which dammed/condemed him before a Holy God is the same sin that must be judged. And that judgement without a saviour was seperation.

He was saved - just like everone in the OT and NT. By Faith. OT saints were awaiting the savior knowing He was comming (Heb 11) How did they know He was coming. God told Adam and Eve (and yes others LATER) He was coming and therefore they would have had to pass this same information along to their children. Adam lived 930 years, so I'm pretty sure many of his grand-children knew the story and the promised redeemer. I find it staggering personally to think that Adam is probably the only person outside of Christ Jesus to fully comprehend the seperation we have from God. And the yearning to be back in that relationship.

 

However, his 'saving' was initiated by God Himself when He demonstrated to all humanity that without the shedding of blood there is no remission. This was to also show, of course the coming of Christ and His death. God demonstrated this and saved Adam by the covering of his sin with the skins He Himself clothed him with.
Once more, this proved that God initiates ones salvation, regenerates a heart, then one becomes clearly aware of their sinfulness and need of a Savior! Adam's actual saving was his faith in the coming Christ. God gave us all a clear demonstration of it in the garden!

 

There is only need for a Saviour when a law is broken. God gave Adam and Even a law. But as long as they didn't break that law, they had no need of a Saviour. The words" salvation, saved, Saviuor do not even apply to Adam and Eve, when they were in their state of Innocence before they fell. They had not sinned. Like Christ, they had nothing to be saved from.
When it comes to faith, they had "perfect faith." You have to be able to put yourself in their shoes. It was just them and God. They actually walked and talked with God, in the sweetest communion that man has never known this side of the Flood. Remember they (unlike us) had no sin nature. There was nothing preventing them in having perfect fellowship with God. In fact, since faith is described as

Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

Perhaps they didn't even need faith. In a theophany God came down and walked in the cool of the evening with them. Could it have been God himself. No man can see God and live. So it must have been a theophany. They, in their innocence, didn't need faith. They were the only one's on the earth at that time. Who else were they to believe?
It was not until Lucifer entered into the garden, made himself known to Eve and presented a choice to her that she had an option of someone else to believe, that doubt or faith would even have had the chance to be exercised.

The sin of Adam brought death and sin into the world.
But did it bring eternal death upon Adam himself?
It brought separation from God upon Adam and Eve; sin brings that separation upon every one of us.
In Adam's case, he was already in God's family. If you believe in eternal security, would God disown his own child? Would God disinherit his own? Or would he just cut off fellowship until his child repents? Where in the Bible does it teach that a true child of God would be "born into the family of Satan?" I never find this teaching in Scripture.
DHK

 

...or Christ incarnate.

 

I want to confront lovingly but excuse me if I say the above two post are preposterous.

Adam did sin. God did confront him. He admitted his sin. He needed a Savior. God clothed him with skins to cover his then revealed nakedness and sin.

All this was a demonstration by God of future needs of all mankind who would forever after be born in sin because of Adams dread disobedience. Even the skins showed covering by blood and need of forgiveness and propitiation by a holy God!


If I could be proven wrong I'll accept that but at this point I will stay with my present view!
To add, yes we know that only the blood of Christ and Christ work on the cross can save anyone but God, who is rich in mercy, showed Adam his need and prevailed for him!

 

When Jesus was born, Mary took a "sin offering" to the priest. What was the sin that Mary committed?
Throughout the Old Testament, whenever an Israelite sinned they presented their sacrifical offering, their sin offering, for without the shedding of blood their is no remisson of sin. This is true, not only for salvation, but for restoration of fellowship with God. Thus the teaching of 1John 1:7 which was written to Christians, not to unbelievers:

1 John 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

You are right in that Adam admitted his sin. I believe there was repentance in acceptance of the sacrifice provided by God. But the acceptance was not an admission of the need of a Saviour. In the intervening time they still had limited fellowship with God. God still instructed Adam. He was not totally cut off from God. His punishment was not "eternal" separation or death. It was spiritual separation or loss of fellowship. Thus the sacrificial lamb and the blood sybolized the blood that was needed to wash away the sin that was committed, in order to restore Adam to full restoration in fellowshiip with God.

However it is also a picture (as is every OT picture of sacrificial lambs) of that Great Sacrifice that was to come, the Lord Jesus Christ, the Lamb that would take away the sin of the world. With evey son born Eve looked for that promised One, for she was given the promise of that One that would come in Genesis 3:15. Those anticipatory promises are seen in the names of her children. She was looking for the Promised One.
DHK

 

But DHK, don't you think Adam suffered physical death as well? He did not die right away, but he did physically die eventually. Death came through sin, and I think this means physical and spiritual death, and Adam suffered both.

Do you agree? If not, what is your view?

 

To say this shows we are on parallel paths, never to meet!
Adam's sin plunged all humanity into sin and every human born thereafter was born a sinner due to his sin!
How did you arrive at this opinion? Please share your references for such! Soli deo gloria!

 

Re: Was Adam saved

DHK,
Satan to was in perfect fellowship with God. He (because of sin) was cast out (just like Adam and Eve) as well. So if we take scripture from your point of veiw, he (Satan) to is saved forever and no condemnation will befall him, he just lost fellowship with God. God forbid!! God is consistant in all He does. Adam's relationship was definately different than ours. He was in a relationship first, and could speak with God. Scripture never actually states Adam "saw" God. We see in scripture that Enoch (a sinnful man) walked with God as well. Jacob wrestled with God. Did they "see" Him? The answer is quite obvious in scripture, No. So the fact he walked with God does not nessesitate that He saw God. Note: After he sinned God still spoke with him and drove him and Eve from the garden. Does the fact God spoke with him mean He did not fall/sin, by no means. The fact scripture states God drove them from the Garden infers that God had to MAKE them leave.

Remember, there was no covenent to cover Adam and Eve in their transgression. And since they willing chose their authority over Gods, they had NOTHING to offer to remove the sin that now stained their souls. This is why they needed salvation, they were stained with sin and had nothing by which to remove it of themselves. God had to send His Son to redeem them. This redemtion entails the cleansing of sin, this includes Adams sin. Since God can not be in the presence of sin (Can not be in a relationship with it or anything infected by it) and sin in contrary to HIS nature, He MUST judge all sin, and bring absolute condemnation. They fell and therefore needed saving. :thumbsup:

 

Yes I agree. Adam did sin and was confronted by God with such. It does not clarify but most plausible the skins were blood offering. Again Cain and Abel indeed brought "offerings" to God. But why and why was God unhappy with Cains?

It would appear because it was not a blood offering.

 

There seems to be an agreement that Adam was redeemed when GOD clothed him in animal skins.

1. How do we know this is what GOD was doing for sure?

2. GOD slew the animal, why would GOD sacrifice an animal to himself? Wouldn't the sinner be the one to make the sacrifice?

I read this verse, "Unto Adam also and to his wife did the LORD God make coats of skins, and clothed them." it appears GOD is merely covering their nakedness, I need help turning this verse into an atonement once and for all. As we know, the old testemant atonement had to be done each year and only "covered" sin.

 

I believe that's my point, Abram believed and Noah obeyed. Adam disobeyed and hid because he was naked. Did God count that as righteousness?

 

This is what everyone says, but nothing in the text indicates it. And in Hebrews 11.4, I think it states that Cain's offering was not accepted because he did not offer it in faith.

 

Yes, he died physically and spiritually. That is why God had to put an angel before the garden to guard its entrance--that they might not have access to the tree of Life. Before the Fall had they obeyed and eaten of the Tree of Life, it is assumed that they would have had eternal life immediately.
Their sin did not take away eternal life. It took away their fellowship with God. They were still God's children. Now they would have to await, like us, to the end of their days to be once again in the presence of God. They were put out of the garden, yes. There was a curse on the earth, yes. But they didn't suffer eternal damnation for it. God took away their chance to live eternally right then and there. They would die physically. Eternity would have to wait. They too would await the resurrection.
DHK

 

It had to be when he believed God, and was justified by faith when he obeyed, and did the work required by God.

It's not our place to pull the plug on any, without proof, and I find proof that he and Eve were justified by faith. These two individuals had it all, and were called Adam. Created by God, so would imagine perfection in our way of thinking could be applied to the Adam. Evidently Lucifer falling from a "perfect" state is not salvable. Adam in a "perfect human state" made a choice, and was not deceived so he knew what he was doing, actually choosing within himself, and love of self, for they are called Adam. He loved Eve more than he did God. She tags along with the head, so she is subject to his decision, or what he chose. So death came into the world by Adam. At this point Adam is dead and lost just as every one born of the One Adam (man and woman).

All that was available to Adam was "conscience" and faith in the work he was to do. But "conscience" cannot save man and it cannot make him good, or better than he is (Romans 2:14-16, I Timothy 4:2, and Titus 1:15). So by faith he was to do the work required of him. We notice the first that Adam produced and delivered into the world was of rebellion, and then the next son born believed the Word of God (there is a very good "shadow or type to be made here"). God evidently was still talking to those of His creation and had told them to make "blood" sacrifice. Cain and Abel both had a "conscience" but one did not have faith and accept the Word of God, and one did. They were both to come of the same faith, which was by faith doing the required work, as directed.

Today we are told something different. What does God tell us? Does he tell us to come in our work of making "blood sacrifice" as all before Damascus Road had to do? Or does He tell us to "believe on the Lord Jesus and we will be saved"? Does he tell us we come by faith in the "great commission" of "repent and be baptized for the remissions of our sins", and/or make blood sacrifice; or does he tell us we find the remission of our sins at the Cross, coming through that faith which made sacrifice for us?

So by "conscience and by faith in his own ability to please God", Cain presents his beautiful, bloodless salad to God. Cain did not believe what God told him to believe so he could have fellowship with God.

We know that by faith Abel believed (Hebrews 11) and did the work that God had told him to do. Did Adam make blood sacrifice as required by God? I would say yes, for it is by Seth that Abram is. Genesis 5:3, "And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, after his image; and called his name Seth. What would Abraham (Hebrews 11) do that others weren't? He would make "blood sacrifices" just as his forefather before him - Noah; and Noah his forefather - Seth, and Seth did as his father Adam, making blood sacrifices to his God. He was being "justified by works" just as James says and was saved in the same manner. James had to be justified by works for he was not justified through faith alone (James 2:17).

Where did we come from? By way of Noah, and Seth, and Adam. As Brother Bob said, in Adam we are multiplied, all in need of a savior. So I will say Adam was justified by faith as he believed God and had fellowship with him. Then it was by faith, and now today it is through faith. Then it was "endure until the end". Today it is Once Saved Always Saved.

As Abraham said, "God will provide".

 

Satan makes a good example.
Lucifer and all the angels were perfect creations of God in a perfect heaven, not totally unlike Adam and Eve. Here we get into the question of the origin of sin, which theologians to this day have never totally agreed upon.
However, it was Lucifer that was found with sin. Instead of trusting in God he trusted in himself. It was pride. He lifted himself up, and in rebellion was going to be like the most high, or over-take the Throne of God itself.
Now all the angels had a choice to make. Where there is a choice, there is the opportunity for faith. The angels could put their faith in Lucifer or in the Lord God Elohim. Who would the follow in obedience?
One third of the angels disobeyed God and followed Lucifer in his rebellion. They put their faith in Lucifer instead of God. They fell. They failed the test (as did Adam and Eve), and were cast out of Heaven. The rest of the angels were "confirmed" in their holiness. For there is no sin in heaven. There is nothing that defiles.
Lucifer is still deluded. He still believes that he can overtake the throne of God. There was never any time in the life of Lucifer/Satan, where he would change his mind (repent) and submit to the authority of God. This is where the parallel stops.
Adam and Eve did repent, and God knew that they would.
Most here believe in eternal security of the believer--once a child of God; always a child of God. If that is true now, why should it be any different for Adam and Eve? Is not God immutable? Are not his promises the same in the OT as they are in the NT? Does God disiherit His own children?
DHK

 

Where does scripture say they repented?

You raised a good point earlier, If the skins were an attonement for their sins, why did God kick them out of the garden, gaurd the entrance and make them work the ground? Why didn't he just let them eat from the tree of life? They were right there.